三泰虎

美版知乎:有些人说汉字是韩国人创造的,是真的吗

I heard some people say Chinese character was invented originally by Koreans. Is it true?

有些人说汉字是韩国人创造的,真的吗?

 

 

以下是Quora网友的评论:

Michael Ciao

The earliest Chinese characters found were 3600 years old, there was no Korea back then, Korea didn’t happen until 1,600 years later.

现在发现的最早的汉字已有3600年的历史,可惜当时韩国都还没影呢,韩国是1600年后才出现的。

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Liu Mei

No, this isn’t true. Chinese characters weren’t invented by Koreans, this is all a lie. Koreans did use Chinese characters before their own characters were invented but they never invented Chinese characters.

不,这不是事实。汉字怎么可能是韩国人发明的,简直是弥天大谎。在他们发明出自己的文字之前,韩国人确实是使用汉字的,但他们绝对没有发明过汉字。

 

 

 

Peter Wybenga

Try Google. Search ‘Chinese Culture’ or ‘Korean Culture’. Or ‘Chinese Language’ or ‘Korean Language’. Read anything from either of these readily available pages, and you will have a new ‘really-the-world-is-flat?’ perspective on the ‘some people’ in your question.

不如搜索看看。搜索一下“中国文化”或“韩国文化”,或者试试“中国语言”或“韩国语言”。看看这些现成的页面,你就会对“有些人”有个全新的看法,绝对给你带去“真的吗?世界是平的?”般的震撼。

Genetically, 95% of Koreans have ancestry to China, and 85% of Japanese have ancestry to Korea. It’s a generally eastward progression. Until in the 4th century AD, going east from Japan became unfeaseable.

Considering Bell Culture - literally the making of bells - in the 14th-16th centuries Korea adapted Chinese techniques, and Korean artisans were forcibly kidnapped by Japanese forces. To make bells.

从基因上看,95%的韩国人都是中国血统,85%的日本人是朝鲜血统。一般情况下都是向东迁徙的。直到公元4世纪,已经没办法从日本再往东了。

比如钟文化——字面上的钟的制作——韩国在14 -16世纪学习了中国的技术,后来工匠们被日本军队强行绑架为他们做钟。

Chinese writing predates Korean writing by AT LEAST 4000 years. Chinese cunieform pictographs date back to AT LEAST 3500 BC. The extant Korean language, the only language in the world we can trace to a specific creation date and creator, in 1446, is much younger.

中国文字的出现至少比韩国文字早了4000年。中国的楔形象形文字至少可以追溯到公元前3500年。现存的独一无二的韩语最早可以追溯到1446年某日某月由某人创造,但它明显年轻多了。

Korean characters, and there are only 24 of them, are actually designed to reflect the tongue shapes of the consonants or vowels they are designed to reflect. Created as a scientific effort to simplify Chinese and increase the literacy rate from 12% to close to 90%. Which 한글 did in less than a decade.

韩国文字实际上只有24个,其实是为了它们对应的辅音或元音的舌头形状而设计的。其目的是为了简化汉字,并将识字率从12%提高到接近90%而进行的科学努力。韩文在不到十年的时间里就实现了这一点。

 

 

 

Yugan Talovich

Oh yes, the Koreans invented everything, including the Tamil language. Koreans even rode dinosaurs. They were the very first Chinese, and lived in China, just to confuse people.

I know there are some supernationalistic Koreans who make up all sorts of ridiculous claims, and suspect that most Koreans are embarrassed by all that malarkey.

If Chinese characters were invented by Koreans, it would fit their language, and they wouldn’t have needed to invent their own alphabet.

哦没错,韩国人发明了一切,包括泰米尔语也是韩国人发明的。韩国人连恐龙都骑过呢。他们就是最早期的中国人,他们生活在中国,就是为了看你们搞不清楚闹笑话。

我知道有些极端民族主义的韩国人会编造各种荒谬的言论,我也怀疑大多数韩国人会对这些胡言乱语感到尴尬。

如果汉字真的是韩国人发明的,那么汉字就能跟他们的语言适配,他们根本就不需要发明自己的字母表了。

The Chinese we write today, be it simplified or Traditional, can be traced directly back to the earliest complete writing we know, the oracle bones and bronzes, which date back well over three thousand years. Unless you pretend that the Shang dynasty was Korean, you have to see that the Chinese were writing Chinese long before Korea even exsted.

我们今天所书写的汉字,无论是简体还是繁体,都可以直接追溯到我们现在已知的最早的完整文字——甲骨文和青铜器,它们可以追溯到3000多年前。除非你非要说商朝是韩国的,你必须正视一点:中国人在韩国出现的很久很久之前就开始使用汉字了。

The Shang dynasty writing is the earliest complete Chinese writing we have, and it in turn has its roots in even earlier signs, a sort of preliterate writing, that appears on pottery.

Here are some signs found on pottery from the 大汶口 Dawenkou culture, around 3000 BCE, or five thousand years ago.

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商朝的文字是我们已知的最早的完整汉字,而它起源于更早前形成的、出现在陶器上的符号文字。

这些是在大汶口文化遗址的陶器上发现的一些符号,时间大约在公元前3000年,也就是距今五千年前。

There is endless debate about just what these mean, but they do seem to be some sort of writing. You can see that they are individual words, just like you see on Shang bronzes, rather than sentences.

The entire evolution of Chinese script takes place squarely on Chinese soil in the Chinese tradition. You may as well say that the Mayans invented Chinese characters. It makes as much sense.

围绕着这些文字的含义存在着无休止的争论,但它们似乎确实就是某种文字。你可以看到它们都是一个个单独的字,就像商代青铜器上的汉字一样,而非句子。

在中国传统中,汉字的演变过程都是在中国的土地上完整进行的。你也可以说是玛雅人发明了汉字啊,都是一样的道理。

 

 

 

Charles Ang

They claimed Confucius was Korean too. Everything is Korean, hence Koreans are basically Chinese. Get my point. Bravo to Koreans.

他们还说孔子是韩国人呢。这个世界上什么都是韩国的,照这么说韩国人基本上就是中国人。你们明白我的意思了吧。韩国人真是太棒了。

 

 

 

Western Decline

Related

What happens if you delete all Chinese elements from Korean culture?

their flags have to be removed.

The flag of South Korea is Taoist Tai Chi

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如果从韩国文化中删除掉所有中国元素,会发生什么呢?

他们的国旗就得改改了。

韩国的国旗是道家太极八卦图。

Some Koreans are weird.

Every time you show evidence that they absorbed culture from China, they start to lose their memory and pretend it didn't happen.

Then they feel it's rude for you to discuss the issue later.

They can attack China and the Chinese at will.

But they do not allow the Chinese to come up with evidence to refute.

Once you show evidence, they pretend to have amnesia.

有些韩国人是真的很奇葩。

每次你拿出证据证明韩国吸收了中国文化,他们就开始装失忆,当没发生过。

他们还会觉得你再次提出这个问题很无礼。

他们自己就可以随心所欲地抨击中国和中国人。

但他们不允许中国人拿出证据来反驳他们。

一旦你拿出证据,他们就马上装失忆。

When they can't refute, they start to spread rumors.

Taoism is not Chinese. Lao Tzu is not Chinese.

Tai Chi is not Chinese. Chinese characters are not Chinese.

These actions of theirs make me sick.

Some Koreans don't pay for meals in Pakistan and then say they are Chinese.

The news above is that Koreans don't pay for meals in Pakistan and then pretend to be Chinese.

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当他们无法反驳时,他们就开始散布谣言。

道教不是中国的。老子不是中国人。

太极不是中国的。汉字不是中国的。

他们的这些行为真叫人恶心。

有些韩国人在巴基斯坦吃饭不付钱,说自己是中国人。

上面那则新闻就是韩国人在巴基斯坦吃饭时装作中国人,不付饭钱。

When you see these news, you feel sick.

Koreans also often talk about culture, freedom, and de ocracy.

They act like an uncivilized barbarian.

这些新闻让你会感到恶心。

韩国人还经常谈论文化、自由和民 主。

可惜韩国人的行为就像未开化的野蛮人。

One of the Koreans in the comments said that he learned Mandarin and classical Chinese since he was a child, and he can read classical Chinese.

I asked him questions in classical Chinese and Mandarin, but he couldn't answer them.

What a hypocrite.

So why do these Koreans do this, didn't they think it would damage the image of Koreans when they did these things?

评论中有个韩国人说,他从小就学习普通话和文言文,他能读懂文言文。

于是我用文言文和普通话向他提问,结果他一句都答不上来。

真是个伪君子。

这些韩国人为什么要这么做呢,他们不担心这样做会损害韩国人的形象吗?

A Korean said that Korea also contributed to Chinese culture.

The problem is that Koreans didn't exst until hundreds of years after Confucius and Laozi were born.

And at that time, Koreans did not have their own writing, so how could they have any contribution to Chinese culture.

Koreans have no contribution to Chinese culture, philosophy, history, law, architecture, music, writing.

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有个韩国人说,韩国对中国文化也做出了贡献。

可是问题就出在这儿呢亲,韩国人是在孔子和老子诞生几百年后才出现的哟。

当时韩国人连自己的文字都还没有呢,怎么可能对中国文化做出过一丁半点的贡献呢?

韩国人对中国的文化、哲学、历史、法律、建筑、音乐、著作都没有任何贡献。

Koreans just pack everything from China to Korea and copy it, and then think that they also contribute to Chinese culture. This is ridiculous.

The Korean script was created in 1446.

Qin Shi Huang unified China in 221 BC.

Chinese philosophers, culture and writing were born before Qin Shi Huang.

This has nothing to do with South Korea, nor does South Korea contribute anything.

韩国人只是把中国的一切打包并复制到韩国,还大言不惭地说自己也为中国文化做出了贡献。这实在是太荒谬了。

韩文出现于1446年。

而秦始皇在公元前221年就统一了中国。

中国的哲学家、文化和文字都诞生于秦始皇之前。

这和韩国丝毫无关,韩国也绝无半点贡献。

 

 

 

Shinichi Yakura

Well, Koreans Chinese and Japanese as well as other Asians have the same origin. We all came from China. Maybe, people who invented Chinese characters migrated to Korea and if they did, what Koreans said may be true.

But Chinese language goes back to prehistoric era, 10,000 years and more.

嗯,韩国人、中国人、日本人以及其他亚洲人都有相同的起源——都来自中国。也许,是发明了汉字的中国人迁徙去了韩国,如果真的是这样,那么韩国人这么说倒也可能是真的。

但是汉语可以追溯到一万多年前的史前时代。

 

 

Haneul Kim

Nope. In fact, a good analogy is using Chinese characters in Korean instead of Hangul was like fitting a those children’s circle blocks into the square holes.

不可能。事实上,一个很好的类比是,在韩文中不用韩语字母而使用汉字,就像把孩子们的圆形积木放进方洞里一样。

 

 

 

 

Dong-Yoon Lee

Related

Who invented the Hanzi Chinese characters?

The inventor is unknown.

According to records of famous Chinese history books such as 'Han Feizius' and 'Lushichunqiu', Chinese characters were made by the intellectual called Cangjie, imitating the footprints of animals and birds. It seems that there ware characters before that because he was a history recorder.

汉字是谁发明的?

发明者不详。

据《韩非子》和《吕氏春秋》等中国著名史书记载,汉字是由一位名叫仓颉的学者模仿动物和鸟类的脚印创造的。似乎在那之前就有文字出现了,因为他只是一个历史的记录者。

It would not be an accurate and objective record, given that he had four eyes.

Archaeological evidence of the first Chinese character is found in Henan province. The culture that left the trail was the Peiligang culture and its trail was 6500 BC. This culture exsted between 7,000 and 5,000 BC.

可因为传说他有四只眼睛,所以这也许不是准确和客观的记录。

首个汉字的考古证据是在河南省发现的,是公元前6500年裴李岗文化的遗迹。这个文化存在于公元前7000年到公元前5000年之间。

This culture leads to Yangshao culture. This culture is from 5,000 BC to 3,000 BC.

This leads to the Shang dynasty, which lasted from 1500 to 1050 BC. Another name on the Shang is Yin, where an oracle bones scripts are found.

Importantly, after the Shang dynasty was overthrown, all the residents were scattered and engaged in commerce.

这个文化又演化出了仰韶文化,存在于公元前5000年到公元前3000年之间。

这个文化造就了商代的建立,从公元前1500年持续到公元前1050年。商代还有另一个名字—殷,出现了甲骨文。

重要的是,商代被推番后,所有居民四处迁徙,开始从事商业活动。

Thereafter, the demand for Chinese characters would have increased, but they did not become bureaucrats. I think that Hanzi could not have been used as everyday characters in Shang because it was a magical character for them.

This phenomenon is the same phenomenon that the Mediterranean basin, where the alphabet was first introduced, does not use the alphabet today. Israel, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. all do not use the alphabet.

此后人们对汉字的需求增加了。我认为汉字在商代不可能被用作日常文字,因为汉字对他们来说是一个神奇的字符。

这种现象和最早引入字母表的地中海盆地今天不再使用字母表的现象是一样的。以色列、黎巴嫩、埃及等国家都不使用字母表。

They invented the alphabet, but they did not write it in everyday language. Because it was sacred thing, like in Shang. Therefore, it is absolutely right that the inventor people did not use Hanzi as everyday character. People who used Hanzi for the first time in everyday life were probably borrowers like Greek than inventors.

他们发明了字母表,但并不用于日常语言的书写。因为它是神圣的东西,和商代一样。因此,发明者没有把汉字作为日常汉字是绝对正确的。在日常生活中第一次使用汉字的人可能是希腊语,而不是发明汉字的人。

The inventors were likely to be people who did not used Hanzi if they still exsted as a group. Their psychological rejection would have vanished after the borrowers began actively using the characters, and then The descendants of the inventors would had forgotten that their ancestors invented the characters. This is precisely what happened on the Mediterranean coast.

如果发明汉字的人现在作为一个群体依然存在,那么他们很可能并不使用汉字。当文化移用国开始积极使用汉字时,他们的心理排斥就会消失,然后发明人的后代就会忘记是他们的祖先发明了汉字。地中海沿岸就发生了这样的事。

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