How China Almost Industrialized 500 Years Before Europe - Song Dynasty History

中国几乎比欧洲早500年发生工业化——宋朝历史

以下是Youtube网友的评论：

@barbiquearea

Despite losing most of Northern China to the in, the Song to their credit were still able to hold off the in and later Mongols for most of their dynasty by investing in strong fortifications at key strategic locations, and of course their advanced gunpowder weapons certainly kept their enemies at bay, even when the Song bureaucracy and its emperors became increasingly feckless and corrupt. One example is their navy. As unlike their northern neighbors the Song could employ riverboats equipped with paddle wheel technology that had better movement and maneuverability compared to traditional sailing ships. These boats equipped were quipped with trebuchets that lobbed gunpowder bombs at enemy fleets were virtually unassailable when taking on the in navy on the Yangtze. These ships were so effective that they were even used up until the Opium Wars, much to the surprise of the British who did not expect the Chinese to be this advanced in their nautical technology.

尽管中国北方的大部分领土都被金国占领，但宋朝仍然能够在其王朝存续的大部分时间里抵挡大金和后来的蒙古人，方法是在关键战略地点投资修建坚固的防御工事，

当然，他们先进的火药武器可以让敌人望而生畏，即使宋朝的官僚机构和皇帝变得越来越无能腐败，他们的海军就是一个例子。

与他们的北方邻国不同，宋朝可以使用配备桨轮技术的内河船，与传统的帆船相比，这种船具有更好的机动性。

这些船配备了投石机，可以向敌人舰队投掷火药炸弹，在长江上与金国海军作战时，几乎是无懈可击的。

这些船非常有效，甚至到鸦片战争事情仍在使用，这让英国人很惊讶，他们没想到中国人在航海技术上如此先进。

@barbiquearea

The Song Dynasty has been considered the true Renaissance Period, that came a several centuries ahead of the Enlightenment in Europe. Had things continued the way they did, its quite possible China would have experienced an industrial age of sorts. Having already mastered blast furnace technology, and production of silk, paper and ceramics on an industrial scale, as well as an arms producing industry quite advanced for its time. Its likely the Chinese and their East Asian neighbors could have seen an industrial era long before the British did in the 19th century.

宋朝被认为是真正的文艺复兴时期，比欧洲的启蒙运动早了几个世纪。如果事情继续这样发展下去，中国很可能会经历一个工业时代。他们已经掌握了高炉技术，掌握了具有工业规模的丝绸、纸张和陶瓷生产，以及当时相当先进的武器生产工业。中国和他们的东亚邻国本可老早就进入工业时代，比英国人在19世纪之前早得多

@jts1702a

The Wang Anshi reform itself is one of the most important lessons on economics, policy, and party politics in Chinese history. This deserves an episode on its own.

王安石变法本身就是中国历史上最重要的经济、政策和政党政治经验之一。这值得单独做一集。

@l34han

It reminds you of the importance of having strong military when a country grows into prosperity. Qing dynasty was also one of the wealthiest countries among the world’s, until it got wrecked and robbed by almost every single strong power of the time.

当一个国家走向繁荣时，拥有强大的军事力量是多么重要。清朝也是当时世界上最富有的国家之一，直到它被当时几乎所有的强国摧毁和掠夺。

@lerneanlion

The defeat of the Song dynasty by the Mongols marked one of the saddest moments I saw in history alongside with the Sack of Baghdad in 1258 and the Sack of Constantiople in 1204. If only the Song and Western ia willingly become Chingghis Khan's vassals, they may survived longer.

与1258年的巴格达之劫和1204年的君士坦丁堡之劫相比，宋朝被蒙古人打败是我在历史上看到的最悲伤的时刻之一。

如果宋朝和西夏心甘情愿地成为成吉思汗的附庸，他们可能会活得更久。

@xz1891

An important reason for 重文轻武 (more focused on civil than on military) is that the founder himself of Song is by coup to attain power, so he is particularly alert to any remotely potential military guys/activities, thus he had a game play called 杯酒释兵权 (release general's military power by a wine/dine talk). Since the begng of the Dynasty, Song was bound to be on a path of civil activities. Unfortunately, by Southern Song, that was the time nomads like Khitan, Jurchen, and Mongols started to rise.

宋朝重文轻武的一个重要原因是宋太祖自己是通过兵变上位的，所以他对任何潜在的军事人员/活动都特别警惕，因此他通过“杯酒释兵权”解除将领的兵权。

宋朝从建朝开始，就注定要走上一条重文的道路。不幸的是，到了南宋，契丹、女真和蒙古等游牧民族开始崛起。

@john-xong-2820

I think the Chinese would have definitely gone Industrialized had it not been for the Mongols. China during the Song Dynasty 宋朝 was pretty advance due to inheriting some levels of science and technology from the past Chinese Dynasty the Tang 唐朝. It's population was already at a height of 80 million people. Meanwhile the total population of all of Europe during the 1000s CE combined was only at 56.4 million people only. Also like you said in this video their GDP was pretty high about $997 million. Plus Europe wasn't even unified and was mostly their own small independent Kingdoms or nations, while China was unified as one and large as one. China was also the first to build the clock tower long before the British did it in the 1800s CE. China even had lots and lots of machines similar to the British Industrial Revolution in the 1800s CE. China also produce the largest amount of Iron and were able to make at least 120,000 tons or more of Iron each year. Meanwhile the British were only able to make only 12,000 tons of Iron before their Industrial Revolution. Let's not forget the Chinese were already the first to use coal before anyone else. China during the Song Dynasty had not only lots of lots of machines they also had advance science and technologies of their time. But sadly we will never know or see Song Dynasty's 宋朝 lost and advance science and technology because of the Mongols.

我认为如果没有蒙古人，中国人肯定会走向工业化。宋朝时期的中国非常先进，因为从唐朝继承了一些科学技术。

当时的人口已经达到了8000万的高峰。与此同时，整个欧洲在20世纪50年代的总人口加起来只有5640万人。

就像你说的，他们的GDP相当高，大约为9.97亿美元。此外，欧洲甚至没有统一，大多是小独立王国或国家，而中国统一为一个王朝。

中国也是第一个建造钟楼的国家，早在公元19世纪的英国人之前。中国甚至有很多类似于19世纪英国工业革命期间的机器。

中国的铁产量也是世界上最大的，每年至少能生产12万吨或更多的铁。

与此同时，英国在工业革命之前只能生产12000吨铁。

我们不要忘记，中国人是第一个使用煤炭的。中国在宋朝不仅有很多很多的机器，他们也有先进的科学技术。

但可悲的是，宋朝人因为蒙古人而失去先进的科学技术。

@ReviveHF

Also geography also plays an important role in why Song Dynasty and Ming Dynasty are slow in develo industrial revolution. Because the coal mines are far away from cities whereas in Britain the mines are located adjacent to cities. Coal is a crucial resources to make high quality steel and as a fuel to power steam engines.

Despite China's geography is not ideal for pioneering the 1st industrial revolution but at least its a lot better than Russia. Russia is huge but its resources are scattered all over the places and there are constant lack of manpower issues in Russia.

宋明两代工业革命进展缓慢，地理因素也是重要原因。因为煤矿离城市很远，而在英国，煤矿靠近城市。煤是生产高质量钢铁的重要资源，也是蒸汽机的燃料。

尽管中国的地理位置不适合开启第一次工业革命，但至少比俄罗斯好得多。俄罗斯幅员辽阔，但其资源分散在各地，俄罗斯一直存在人力短缺问题。

@kuroazrem5376

This is probably the most interesting period for me in the whole of Chinese history. In fact, I think that, hadn't the Mongols wrecked China at this stage, it could have spearheaded modernity, with it reaching Europea via the Muslim World.

在我看来，这可能是整个中国历史上最有趣的朝代。事实上，我认为，如果不是蒙古人在这个阶段摧毁了中国，它可能会引领现代化，通过MSL世界到达欧洲。

@godzillamothra5983

Song dynasty was a golden age empire born in the wrong time when the wolves are at peak of their power. Not only in culture and technology. Compare to other dynasties, Song empire also had relatively benevolent emperors.

宋朝是一个黄金时代的帝国，在错误的时间诞生，当时蒙古人正处于实力的顶峰。不仅仅是在文化和技术上，与其他朝代相比，宋朝也有相对仁慈的皇帝。

@caocao4731

Even more importantly, had the rough equilibrium between Southern Song, i ia and the Jurchen in continued; we might have seen the rise of a sort of proto-Chinese colonial Empire in SE Asiang a fairly new economic frontier, just as the Europeans did the Americas.

更重要的是，如果南宋、西夏和女真大金之间的大致平衡能继续，我们可能会在东南亚看到一个中国式的殖民帝国的崛起

@Clee-os6pv

The real reason it never happen in our real time was because of the fault of the Mongols. If it wasn't for the Nomads aka the Mongols? China would have entered the Industrial Age in the 1100s. China already had the exact same and many conditions similar to England for industrialization in the 1800s. China's industrialization was imminent and unavoidable by the 1100s. Again? The only reason it never happened in our real time line was mostly because of the Nomads or Mongols. They were the ones who stopped China's development from achieving this historical event. Also? China also lost some technology during the Mongol invasion.

如果不是游牧民族，也就是蒙古人，中国本该在12世纪进入工业时代。

在19世纪的工业化时期，中国已经有了与英国完全相同的条件，而且有很多类似的条件。

到了11世纪，中国的工业化已经迫在眉睫，不可避免，它没有发生的唯一原因主要是因为游牧民族或蒙古人

。正是他们阻止了中国的发展，阻止了中国实现这一历史事件。在蒙古入侵期间，中国也失去了一些技术。

@josephmartel2254

China’s proxmity to the nomadic peoples to the north is what held back their civilization. Western Europe is kind of distant from the rest of the world and has the benefit  of being situated in a horizontal continental axs. The Song dynasty which almost industrialized was conquered by the Mongols and then Ming dynasty which kept out European and Japanese expansion was conquered by the Manchus. I feel these points are often overlooked when understanding how and why Western civilization was so successful when China was equally as capable but ultimately Western Europe had the better geographic positioning.

中国北方的游牧民族阻碍了他们的文明进程。西欧离世界其他地方有点远，它的好处是位于一个水平的大陆轴上。

几乎工业化的宋朝被蒙古人征服，后来的明朝阻止了欧洲和日本的扩张，却被满族人征服。

我觉得在理解西方文明如何以及为什么如此成功时，这些观点经常被忽视，而中国同样有能力，但最终西欧拥有更好的地理位置。

@jeremyahesteban3394

It's really mind boggling if not amazing when you realize that China in the ancient times would have been the greatest superpower in the world if their respective dynasties had succeed.

当你意识到在古代中国，如果各个时期的王朝成功的话，就会成为世界上最伟大的超级大国，这真是令人难以置信。

@TakCWAL

Anyone who studied Song Dynasty history to an extent would recognize that it was probably the best place to live in the world at the time, for the Empire was stable, rich and prosperous.

任何对宋朝历史有一定研究的人都会发现，它可能是当时世界上最宜居的地方，因为这个帝国稳定、富裕、繁荣。

@keningall5404

Very interesting to find out how much more advanced China was compared to the rest of the world.

发现中国曾比世界其他地方先进多少是非常有趣的。

@deacudaniel1635

What I love the most about the Song dynasty are the landscape paintings made in that era.

我最喜欢宋朝的一点是那个时代的山水画。

@duhtoolazy6776

While Northern Song was very advance, it should have focused on retaking the Great Wall regions before hand in order to create a defensive barrier. Had they had the defensive structures at the Great Wall, the in may not have have easily penetrated in to the Heartland and their economy might have survived long enough to become industrialized.

虽然北宋很先进，但它应该把重点放在提前夺回长城地区，以建立一个防御屏障。如果他们在长城上有防御结构，金朝可能无法轻易渗透到心脏地带，他们的经济可能能存活至实现工业化。

@johannathanwong234

Interesting video, sadly Song Dynasty military was plagued with corruption as well as their courts. That is why they lose to the jurchens. You should make a video about Yue Fei and how he got killed by a corrupted official.

可悲的是宋朝军队和朝廷都被腐败所困扰。这就是他们输给女真人的原因。你应该制作一个关于岳飞的视频，以及他是如何被一个腐败官员害死的。

@junesilvermanb2979

The Song dynasty (Chinese: 宋朝; pinyin: Sòng cháo; 960–1279) was an imperial dynasty of China that began in 960 and lasted until 1279.

The dynasty was founded by Emperor Taizu of Song following his usurpation of the throne of the Later Zhou, ending the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period.

The Song often came into conflict with the contemporaneous Liao, Western ia and in dynasties in northern China.

After decades of armed resistance defending southern China, it was eventually conquered by the Mongol-led Yuan dynasty.

宋朝是中国的一个帝国王朝，始于960年，一直持续到1279年。

宋朝是宋太祖篡夺后周王位后建立的，结束了五代十国时期。

宋朝经常与中国北方同时代的辽、西夏和金发生冲突。

经过几十年保卫中国南方的武装抵抗，最终被蒙古领导的元朝征服。

@KiwiImpactSaint

Worth mentioning, Song militaries saved Europe and Egypt by killing Mongke Khan in 1259, possibly with a firearm projectile. Mongol Empire fractured after Mongke died, never managed to invade anywhere with its full force again.

值得一提的是，宋朝军队在1259年杀死了蒙古可汗，拯救了欧洲和埃及，可能是用火器发射武器。蒙古帝国在可汗死后分崩离析，再也没有使出全力入侵任何地方。

@bunnyben5607

I'm honestly skeptical as to whether they actually could have had an industrial revolution, considering they didn't have rail or steam engines, nor did they have the necessary chemistry knowledge for development of some industries, such as steel.

考虑到他们没有铁路或蒸汽机，也没有必要的化学知识来发展一些工业，比如钢铁，我真怀疑他们是否真的可以进行工业革命，

@stevenzheng5459

Bi Sheng's movable type was made of clay. Wooden movable type printing in China was more common later.

毕升的活字是用黏土做的。木制活字印刷术后来在中国更为普遍。

@unifieddynasty

I wonder, had the An Lushan rebellion not happened, would this have given Tang/Song enough time to further develop so that they could repel the future Jurchen and Mongol invasions? Then again, An Lushan was only a symptom of the underlying illness.

我想知道，如果没有发生安禄山叛乱，是否能给唐宋足够的时间进一步发展，这样他们就可以击退女真人和蒙古人的入侵？话说回来，安禄山只是潜在疾病的一个症状。

@ntluck1592

It's weird you compare 10th and 11th century Song China with 13th century European countries when you have better contemporaries in the Abbasid Caliphate as well as India. One can argue that Baghdad was also very close to industrialization if not for the Mongols

你把10-11世纪的宋朝和13世纪的欧洲国家进行比较，这很奇怪，有更好的比较对象印度。有人可能会说，如果不是蒙古人，巴格达当时也非常接近工业化了

@stevenzheng5459

Ah, the Song dynasty, my favourite Chinese dynasty (especially the advance math, science & tech)!

宋朝，我最喜欢的中国朝代(尤其是先进的数学、科学和技术)!

@ChrisL369

Damn! So many biased people in the comment section. The Chinese were very advance civilization and powerful one too before they lost to the Mongols. If it wasn't for them the Chinese would have been the ones to make history and a global impact on the world. Anyone who has study Chinese history would be fully aware of this topic. The Chinese would have industrialized  500 or 700 years ago before any of the Europeans would have. There's already tons of evidence China had the ability to do it. By the late 1,000's CE the Chinese under the Song period were able to produce up to 120,000 tons of Iron or more. By that time period the Chinese were already using mostly machines to produce the Iron.

评论区很多人有偏见。在输给蒙古人之前，中国是非常先进和强大的文明。如果没有他们，中国人早就是创造历史和对世界产生全球影响的人了。

任何学习过中国历史的人都很清楚这个话题。中国人早在500或700年前就实现了工业化，比任何一个欧洲国家都早。

已经有大量证据表明中国有能力做到这一点。到公元1000年代末，宋朝时期的中国人已经能够生产多达12万吨的铁，甚至更多。在那个时期，中国人已经主要使用机器来生产铁。

@CrimsonAlchemist

Chinese History is underrated. History books around the world mostly talk about Western achievements. But Chinese achievements dwarf all of them

中国历史被低估了。世界各地的历史书大多谈论西方的成就。但中国的成就让他们相形见绌

@meeinhuang

China did industrialize centuries before Europe.  What China didn't do was setup distant trading colonies like Europe and that brought its eventual downfall to European trading powers.

中国的确比欧洲早几个世纪实现了工业化。中国没有做的是像欧洲那样建立遥远的贸易殖民地，这最终导致了欧洲贸易大国的垮台。

@breezyso2392

Song dynasty is known for how affluent it was. It used to hold about 80% of global gdp (though there arent statistics to prove this)

宋朝以其富裕而闻名，曾经占全球GDP的80%(尽管没有统计数据可以证明这一点)。

@mottscottison6943

It was said that if not for Mongol invasion the Industrial revolution could have happened 500 years earlier in China.

据说，如果没有蒙古人的入侵，中国的工业革命可能会早500年发生。