华为计划年底前重返5G手机市场

Huawei to Use China Fab's 7nm Node to Overcome U.S. Sanctions: Report

华为将利用中国晶圆厂的7纳米节点，绕过美国制裁

Huawei Technologies, which is banned from using U.S.-originated technologies, is planning its return to flagship smartphone market by the end of the year, reports Reuters citing three research firms. The company will reportedly use Chinese fabs and technologies to produce advanced chips required for 5G handsets, although the details remain vague.

路透社援引三家研究公司的报道称，被禁止使用美国技术的华为计划在今年年底前重返旗舰智能手机市场。据报道，该公司将使用中国的晶圆厂和技术生产5G手机所需的先进芯片，尽管细节仍不清楚。

Reports from several research companies covering the Chinese smartphone market indicate that Huawei will likely be able to secure domestic 5G chips, thanks to its own developments in semiconductor design tools and chip manufacturing by the Semiconductor Manufacturing International Co. In particular, Huawei is rumored to make use of SMIC's N+1 manufacturing process, which belongs to 7nm-class production nodes, though it is likely that the high-tech giant will use a refined version of N+1.

几家研究中国智能手机市场的研究公司的报告显示，得益于华为在半导体设计工具和中芯国际制造芯片方面的自主研发，华为很可能能够获得国产5G芯片。特别是，有传言称华为将使用中芯国际的N+1制造工艺，该工艺属于7nm级生产节点，尽管这家高科技巨头很可能会使用改进版的N+1。

Huawei's current flagship P60 Pro smartphone relies on Qualcomm's platform as well as the company's own Harmony OS operating system. Using SMIC's production node, the company could probably produce a cheaper handset for the mass market, increase sales of its smartphones, and gain experience with domestic technologies for 5G smartphones. The company has reportedly upped its smartphones sales projections for 2023 from 30 million to 40 million.

华为目前的旗舰产品P60 Pro智能手机依赖于高通的平台以及华为自己的“鸿蒙” OS操作系统。利用中芯国际的生产技术，该公司可能会为大众市场生产更便宜的手机，增加其智能手机的销量，并获得5G智能手机国内技术的经验。据报道，该公司已将2023年智能手机的销量预期从3000万提高到4000万。

What remains to be seen is whether Huawei can produce a rival for the Qualcomm SM8475 Snapdragon 8+ Gen 1 platform using one of SMIC's nodes.

华为能否借助中芯国际，生产出与高通SM8475骁龙8+ Gen 1平台竞争的产品，我们拭目以待。

以下是reddit网民的评论：

MasterBoring

Bound to happen, but without seeing the actual product, it's hard to know where this is going.

这是必然会发生的，但在没有看到实际产品的情况下，很难知道结果如何。

Zarmazarma

Should be interesting to see some widespread hardware begin to use SMIC. We'll finally get a sense of the process, and how good it actually is. I know there was the crypto-mining Minerva chip, but we basically have no other information on that other than "it exsts". If it ends up in cellphones or something, we might get a sense of what it's capable of.

看到一些广泛使用的硬件开始使用中芯国际的芯片，这应该会很有趣。我们最终会了解这个过程，以及它到底有多好。我知道有加密采矿的密涅瓦芯片，但除了“它存在”之外，我们基本上没有其他信息。如果它最终出现在手机或其他东西上，我们可能会对它的性能有所了解。

kyralfie

Best of luck to them. Last TSMC made Kirin SoCs were absolute chart-top beasts.

祝他们好运。上一次台积电生产的麒麟芯片绝对是排行榜上的佼佼者。

Lollmfaowhatever

Dude I still have a Mate8 and it's running a kirin 950 which is generations older than 9000 and to this day it runs Genshin and star rail and the system is as fast as the day I bought it. It's like 8 years old at this point and I've never felt the need to switch.

And this is Huawei, in China, they caught up from 24+ nm to 7nm in 3 years.

我还在用华为的Mate8，运行的是麒麟950，比9000早几代，直到今天它还运行Genshin和star rail，系统和我买的时候一样快。到目前为止，已经用8年了，我从来没有觉得有必要换手机。这就是中国华为，他们在3年内从24+纳米提升到7纳米。

ExtendedDeadline

If Huawei can offer a consistent, bug free experience with a clean UI and good photo taking, that's all the consumer really needs. Also, really good connectivity. I am shocked that my p7 has worse connectivity than my old s10e.

希望华为能够提供始终如一的无bug体验、干净的用户界面和良好的拍照效果，这才是消费者真正需要的。而且，网络连接也要好。令我震惊的是，我的p7连接性比我旧的s10e还差。

Jeffy29

The N+1 that I am hearing about for nearly 3 years but I am yet to see a mass production device that uses it? I'll believe it when I see it.

我听说N+1已经快3年了，但我还没有看到大规模生产的设备使用它？我要亲眼所见才会相信。

Lollmfaowhatever

There's been SMIC 7nm mining GPUs for consumers since late 2021.

自2021年底以来，中芯国际已经为消费者推出了7纳米挖矿GPU。

stinkytofuicecream

They must have advanced past 14-nm EDA tools if that's true. Pretty astounding progress but time will tell if it's true. If they're capable of making 7nm chips at scale natively by the end of of the decade, it's safe to say that sanctions have failed and China will be on the way to <7nm past 2030. Although tech will also advance outside China, diminishing returns due to physical limitations might close the distance between SMIC and TSMC products enough that the quality difference becomes meaningless.

如果这是真的，他们肯定已经超越了14纳米EDA工具，这是相当惊人的进步，但时间会证明这是否是真的。如果他们能够在本十年末大规模生产7纳米芯片，那么可以肯定地说，制裁已经失败，中国将在2030年后实现<7纳米。虽然技术也将在中国以外发展，但由于物理限制，收益递减可能会缩小中芯国际与台积电产品之间的差距，从而使质量差异变得毫无意义。

FactoryUser

Wonder how long this stays up before it's removed for being "rumors".

不知道过多久这个帖子会因为“造谣”而被删除。

Lollmfaowhatever

When they got banned people said it'd take them 10 years to catch up.

当他们被禁时，人们说他们需要10年才能赶上。

Fit-Case1093

The ceo of Nvidia isn't too happy about cutting off china either

英伟达的CEO对切断中国市场也不太高兴

ArnoF7

I think Huawei will try to get back to high-end smartphones sooner or later no matter what manufacturing process they end up using, even if it’s subpar compared to the cutting edge. They can at least get some revenue from the domestic market.

Huawei’s overall revenue and profits continue to struggle because of sanctions. Growth in profits from carrier business remains tepid for the last few years. I heard that global 5G rollout is not up to the expectations due to how expensive the equipments are. I am not sure how true this is since it’s not my domain, but it’s definitely true that Huawei will need a lot more revenue from consumer electronics to compensate their large investment into 5G and keep funding their RD effort. They can’t afford to permanently cut off their consumer electronics business including high end smartphones, which is supposed to be a cash cow for them

我认为华为迟早会重返高端智能手机，不管他们最终使用的是什么制造工艺，即使它与尖端产品相比差了些。他们至少可以从国内市场获得一些收入。

由于制裁，华为的整体收入和利润继续低迷。过去几年，运营商业务的利润增长一直不温不火。我听说全球5G的推出没有达到预期，因为设备太贵了。我不确定这是否真实，因为这不是我的领域，但华为将需要从消费电子产品中获得更多收入，以补偿他们对5G的大量投资，并继续为他们的研发工作提供资金。他们无法承受永久切断包括高端智能手机在内的消费电子产品业务的后果，因为高端智能手机本应是他们的摇钱树

Shot_Play_4014

Without immersion DUV? I don't think so. SMEE does not make immersion DUV lithography machines.

SMIC's "7nm" was never produced in volume, the dies were small, and PPA was reported to be bad.

没有浸入式DUV？我不这么想。SMEE不生产浸入式DUV光刻机。

中芯国际的“7纳米”芯片从未量产，模具很小，据报道PPA是坏的。

Quirky-Tomatillo5584

Everybody knows this, so where is the surprise?, China is a goddamn beast in technology, where is the oh in this report, they have a fucking jet engine-like economy with highly intelligent ppl running very sophisticated programs; I don't care what China does, they will always innovate and make breakthroughs. It is the most important for us that we work and bring new products to the market as well.

大家都知道，那有什么好惊讶的呢？中国是一个科技巨头，，他们的经济如喷气引擎一样，高智商的人写出非常复杂的程序。我不管中国做什么，他们总是会创新和突破。对我们来说，把新产品推向市场是最重要的。

cubes158

Said it day 1, sanctions on China [and Russia] is stupid short-sighted policy.

It only reduces Western tech influence in those areas, it forces them to be self-sufficient and competent, and in the case of China it could backfire and push them towards dominance on a 10-20 year time frame. Could also motivate them to invade Taiwan.

Do you want every PC in Russia to be running on Intel CPUs with the Intel ME and CIA backdoors, or do you want them to run custom Russian and Chinese components? While their markets potentially matureand turn into global competition?

从第一天就说过，制裁中国(和俄罗斯)是愚蠢的短视政策。

这只会减少西方在这些领域的技术影响力，迫使他们自给自足。建立能力。就中国而言，这可能会适得其反，并在10-20年内将他们推向主导地位。也可能促使他们收复台湾省。

你是想让俄罗斯的每台个人电脑都运行带有英特尔ME的cpu，还是想让它们运行自定义的俄罗斯和中国组件？他们的市场有可能成熟并具备全球竞争力

whitelynx22

To me this raises several questions. As someone else said, those dimensions are mostly marketing.

Is it possible? Certainly. Is it likely? No.

I.e. I have serious doubts that they've managed to develop a comparable 7nm node on their own. There are many pieces to manufacturing, each very complex. Even if you had stolen IP it would be a huge challenge and SMIC has never been anywhere close to other foundries. I wish we'd know more. it's a secretive industry and China... Well, they can claim whatever they want.

And, there's more than density to a successfully and competitive process node.

我提出了几个问题。正如其他人所说，这些维度主要是营销。

这可能吗？当然。很有可能吗？不一定。也就是说，我非常怀疑他们是否能够自己开发出一个类似的7纳米芯片。要制造很多部件，每一个都非常复杂。即使你窃取了知识产权，这也将是一个巨大的挑战，而且中芯国际从来没有接近过其他代工厂。希望我们能了解更多。这是一个秘密行业，中国他们想说什么就说什么。而且，成功和有竞争力的过程节点不仅仅是看密度。

Exst50

As someone else said, those dimensions are mostly marketing

TechInsights teardown of an SMIC 7nm chip showed structure sizes similar to TSMC 7nm. Perf, yield, and all that is another story.

正如其他人所说，主要是营销。Technhinsights对中芯国际7纳米芯片的拆解显示，其结构尺寸与台积电7纳米相似。性能、产量以及其他都是另一回事。

SunnyCloudyRainy

I would cast huge doubt on the yield of SMIC's 7nm process, the yield of their 14nm process is already not great iirc

EDIT: It is reported speculated SMIC's 7nm process has 15% yield at 10x cost of TSMC's 7nm process about a year ago

我非常怀疑中芯国际7纳米芯片的良品率，他们14纳米制程的良品率已经不高

据报道，据推测中芯国际的7纳米芯片的良品率为15%，成本是台积电7纳米芯片的10倍

Fit-Case1093

source?

来源是？