Why does India not reverse engineer Su-35 and Rafale and use tech transfer to make cheaper copies of Rafale in India like China does?

为什么印度不对苏-35和阵风战机进行逆向工程，并像中国那样利用技术转让在印度制造更便宜的阵风战机仿品？

以下是Quora网友的评价：

Ch

There are a few reasons why India does not reverse engineer the Su-35 or Rafale and use tech transfer to make cheaper copies in India, like China does. Firstly, both the Su-35 and Rafale are advanced, high-performance fighter jets that are difficult to replicate. Reverse engineering and tech transfer would require significant resources, expertise, and time. Secondly, both Russia and France have strict export regulations and agreements in place that prohibit the unauthorized replication of their military technology. These regulations include penalties for violations and would make it difficult for India to reverse engineer and replicate these aircraft without facing legal consequences.Lastly, India has a history of collaboration with Russia and France and has built a strong relationship with them. This has resulted in good defense deals, which is beneficial for both parties. Replicating their aircraft would harm the relationship and any future defense deals.

印度没有像中国那样对苏-35或阵风战机进行逆向工程，并利用技术转让在印度制造更便宜的仿制品，原因有如下几点：

首先，苏-35和阵风战机都是先进、高性能的战斗机，很难复制。逆向工程和技术转让需要耗费大量的资源、专业知识和时间。

其次，俄罗斯和法国都有严格的出口条例和协议，禁止未经授权进行军事技术复制。这些规定包括对违规行为进行处罚，印度如果对这些飞机进行逆向工程和复制，很难逃过法律后果。

最后，印度与俄罗斯和法国都有着合作历史，建立了牢固的关系，这有助于进行良好的国防交易，对双方都有利。仿制飞机会损害两国关系和未来的军备协议。

Aman G

India has already made a 4th generation fighter jet which is HAL Tejas:

Which is at par with F-16 on specifications.

Now, India has to catch with USA and USSR on making fighter jets.

Starting a new industry and making your first fighter jet is way more difficult and takes years.

Moving from a 4th to 5th, or 3rd to 4th generation, improving exsting tech, is much easier.

Most of the work has already been done by India. Now only cherry has to be added on the cake.

印度已经造出了第四代战机—光辉战机。

在性能上可以和F-16媲美。

现在，印度必须在战斗机制造上追赶美国和苏联。

从零开始打造第一架战斗机是非常困难的事，需要耗费数年的心血。

从第4代升级到第5代，或从第3代升级到第4代，改进现有的技术，则要容易得多。

印度已经完成大部分工作了，现在只需要锦上添花。

Ajoy Roy

Reverse engineering is a complicated affair. Yes you can copy the shape and internals. While that is very easily done with simple objects - toys, clothes and some appliances, there are a host of other issues involved when you attempt to copy advanced and complicated objects.

Advanced or state of art machinery uses state of art materials. You can copy the shape, but what about materials. For that you need a whole infrastructure and design capability.

Advanced machinery required advanced manufacturing. That involves both machine tools and assembly procedures.

逆向工程非常复杂。是的，你可以仿制形状和内部结构，对简单的东西而言—玩具、衣服和一些电器—这事并不复杂，但如果想仿制高级、复杂的东西，你就会面临许多问题。

先进的或最尖端的设备需要使用先进的材料。你可以复制形状，但是材料呢？所以你需要完整的基础设施和设计的能力。

先进的设备所需的先进的制造业，这就涉及到机械设备和组装程序。

Both the above require your own expertise that comes with R&D and practice, and that takes a lot of effort (both monitory and personnel) as well as time. This is some thing no amount of copying will give you.

For example

以上两项都需要自己摸索研发和实践经验，这需要大量的努力(包括监控和人员)和时间。这是再多的仿制也学不到的东西。

例如

a) India use Russian tanks. The treads are imported from Russia. Why? Because as yet India has not been able to manufacture steel of that particular quality. Indian tank treads last less than half that of Russian treads.

b) Jet engines (and power turbines) use turbine blades. These are now a days made of special ceramic/steel composite and require advanced manufacturing techniques. Very few companies have mastered the design and manufacture of turbine blades. Even Chinese who are past masters at copying still buy jet engines, and so do Indians.

a) 印度使用俄罗斯坦克。履带是从俄罗斯进口的。为什么？因为到目前为止，印度还无法造出那种质量的钢铁。印度坦克的履带耐用时间不到俄罗斯的一半。

b) 喷气发动机(和动力涡轮)使用涡轮叶片。这些叶片都是由特殊的陶瓷/钢复合材料制成的，需要先进的制造技术。掌握了涡轮叶片的设计和制造能力的公司很少。就连善于模仿的中国人也需要购买飞机引擎，印度人也一样。

So yes we can reverse engineer fighter aircraft, but only when we can manufacture critical components to that standard on our own, but then you will not need to reverse engineer, just design and build your own.

所以，是的，我们可以对战斗机进行逆向工程，但前提是我们自己有能力造出符合标准的关键部件，但如果真有这种能力，我们也就不需要进行逆向工程了，靠自己设计和制造就足够了。

Krishna Kumar Subramanian

You are thoroughly mistaken.

China does not , has not, reverse engineered anything in the area of jet fighters.

They have agreements with Russia and Ukraine and have legally, legitimately obtained a good amount of technology from them.

And of course, they have done some development on these imported technologies themselves.

But China has NEVER been able to reverse engineer a modern (or even an outdated) western fighter aircraft.

NEVER.

你完全错了。

中国现在没有，过去也不曾对喷气式战斗机进行任何逆向工程。

他们与俄罗斯和乌克兰签订了协议，合法地从他们手中获得了大量技术。

当然，他们自己也对这些引进的技术进行了一些研发升级。

但中国从来没有能力对西方的现代(甚至是过时的)战斗机进行逆向工程。

从来没有。

Kanthaswamy Balasubramaniam

This Reverse Engineering Business is HIGHLY EXAGGERATED

Its one thing to reverse engineer a Tubelight or a Toy Helicopter.

Its next to impossible to Reverse Engineer a Su-35 or a Rafale. In fact it would require far more talent to reverse engineer these specs than to learn the concepts and do the entire thing from scratch.

这种逆向工程被夸大其实了。

对荧光灯管或玩具直升机进行逆向工程也许简单。

但对苏-35或阵风战机进行逆向工程几乎是不可能的事。事实上，进行逆向工程比从头学习概念、从零起步要难得多。

Maybe the Design can be copied but there are too many things in an aircraft and its just impossible to split it open and reverse engineer.

Its the same as taking a Coca Cola Drink- reverse engineering the chemicals and percentage and develo Boca Cola. It would be easier to use your own mix of chemicals and improvise till you get a good taste.

也许设计方案可以复制，但一架飞机有太多细节，不可能简单拆开进行逆向研究。

这就好比对可口可乐下手—对化学成分和比例进行逆向分析，然后研发出Boca可乐。但用自己的混合配料进行即兴组合会更简单。

Even on Discovery - Many Experts refute this Reverse Engineering and one Designer of Lockheed Martin - a Top Aircraft Company says Its Impossible to reverse engineer a Fighter. It would cost you more effort and you would need to be far more skilled than to be able to create your own fighter.

If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. I mean the Israelis are equally talented so they can simply make their own F-22 Raptor. Singapore could make its own F-18. We could make our own Ferraris.

许多专家也对逆向工程的说法提出了反驳，洛克希德·马丁公司的一名设计师说，对战斗机进行逆向工程是不可能的任务，比起打造自己的战斗机，需要更多更熟练的技术。

如果逆向工程真的有这么简单，大家早都这么做了。我的意思是，以色列人也很有才华，他们可以轻松造出自己的F-22猛禽，新加坡也可以造出自己的F-18，我们也能造出自己的法拉利了。

I think China just likes the world to think they reverse engineer when in reality i think they send students, learn the fundamentals, try, try and try and finally succeed.

Sure people say the Chinese J-20 looks same as the Raptor etc etc but frankly there are not too many Aerodynamic designs in the world. All Airplanes look vaguely similar to each other.

One Simple thing - It requires 75000 Parameters to design a Wing for a Fighter. 75,000 Parameters. So can you imagine reverse engineering a Wing????

我认为中国只是想让世界认为他们在搞逆向工程，但实际上，我觉得他们不断派出学生出国学习基础知识，不断尝试，继续尝试，最后终于成功了。

当然，大家都说中国的J-20看起来和猛禽一模一样，但说实话空气动力学的设计也玩不出什么花样，所有的飞机看起来都很像。

说个很简单的事吧，设计战斗机机翼就需要75000个参数。那可是75000个参数啊。你能想象对一个机翼进行逆向工程有多复杂了吗?

Even an Architect who copies a design has to get the entire schematics to do the structural engineering. Just give the Architect the design of a building and he simply cannot redesign the building unless he has an unlimited budget. For instance a Brunei Sheikh who wanted a Replica of the White House found his bill would be $ 8.25 Billion which is far more than the White House is valued today

This is because the engineers and architects will have to keep trying various combos and many of them will fail and they have to demolish and start again.

即使建筑师想要抄袭设计，如果只给建筑师一份建筑设计，他也无法重新设计出这个建筑，除非他有无限的预算。例如，一位文莱酋长想要建一座白宫，可能预算需要82.5亿美元，这远远超过了白宫的估价。

原因是工程师和建筑师必须不断尝试各种方案，经历多次失败，不断建了拆，拆了建。

Krishna Suryakanth

Related

Why does India not make Rafale?

Good question.

为什么印度不制造阵风战机？

这是个好问题。

Point 1:

India should make Rafale jets if it needs continuous supply of jets. However, this is not the case. We don't need continuous supply of jets. We need a couple of hundred jets at max.

第一点：

如果印度有持续的需求，是应该自己生产阵风战机。但事实并非如此，我们不需要持续购买战斗机，最多只需要几百架就够了。

Point 2:

You may think how about making and exporting to other countries. Countries that need jets, already own them. And if there is a necessity in future or upgradation is required, there are already enough jet suppliers.

第二点：

你还要考虑一下生产后出口给其他国家的前景。需要飞机的国家已经拥有了飞机。如果其他有需求或者需要升级，也能找到足够多的飞机供应商。

Point 3:

India will need to put a lot of money. Just imagine a handful number of jets are costing us in billions. How much would we have to invest to produce them? Even if we are able to invest and produce, we will have to compete with exsting strong players.

第三点：

印度需要投入大量资金。想象一下区区几驾飞机就花费了数十亿美元。我们需要投资多少钱来生产呢？就算我们有实力投资生产，我们也得和现有的强大对手竞争。

Point 4:

We did try to manufacture jets in India. However, it didn't work out. At this moment I don't want to point out what went wrong. But one thing is true, at present, Jet manufacturing is not our area of expertise.

第四点：

我们的确尝试在印度制造飞机，然并卵。我不想说哪里有问题。但有一件事是真的，目前，飞机制造不是我们的专业领域。

Point 5:

Last but not least, Pakistan is active on border and so is China. We urgently need good quality fighter jets. We felt the shortage of advanced jets during airstrikes last year. Our enemies know our deficiencies. So buying them is the best option.

第五点：

巴基斯坦在边境上很活跃，中国也是。我们迫切需要高质量的战斗机。在去年的空袭中，我们深深感受到先进战机的短缺。我们的敌人也清楚我们的缺陷，所以购买是我们最好的选择。

Ranjiv Kurup

Related

Should India buy more Rafale?

You should try and analyse the changes in the geopolitical situation of the region that are in India’s national interest and then weigh that with the level of defense preparedness.

You may be aware that the IAF which needs 42 squadrons of combat aircraft is presently down to 29 squadrons, with the two new Rafale squadrons bringing the strength up to 31 units. We are still short of 11 squadrons each of 18 aircraft, meaning 198 aircraft.

印度应该购买更多阵风战机吗？

你应该试着分析一下该地区符合印度国家利益的地缘政治局势的变化，然后再和国防战备水平进行权衡。

你可能会发现，印度空军需要42个战斗机中队，而现在已经降至29个中队，新增的两个阵风战斗机中队使中队数增至31个，但还有11个中队的缺口。每个中队有18架飞机，总计198架。

HAL produces 6 Tejas Mk1A aircraft each year, which means it will take them 33 years to fulfill the IAF requirements unless they ramp up. At any rate, even the ram up of manufacturing facilities will need time.

Besides this shortfall, some 7 squadrons of Mig-21 Bison/BIS are obsolescent as are 12 squadrons of Su-30 which will require major upgrades or replacement.

So the answer is a very obvious yes!

印度航空公司每年生产6架光辉Mk1A飞机，这意味着除非增加产量，否则他们需要33年才能满足印度空军现在的需求，但增加生产设施也需要时间。

另外大约7个中队的米格-21“野牛”/“BIS”已经过时，12个中队的苏-30也需要重大升级或大换血。

所以对于这个问题，答案很明显，是的，印度应该购买更多战斗机！

But which types?

That’s dependent on the national security doctrine and how the IAF and increasingly our “joint forces” intends to fight future battles.

A multi-role aircraft like the Rafale is therefore a reasonable trade-off.

但要买哪种呢？

这取决于国家安全的原则，也取决于印度空军和我们的“联合部队”对未来的战争有何规划。

因此，像“阵风”这样的多用途飞机是一个合理的选择。