Why the big car companies are losing China

为什么大型汽车公司正在失去中国市场？

Big carmakers like Volkswagen and Toyota were once top sellers in China. Now they’re rapidly losing ground to a new generation of Chinese companies luring local buyers with advanced – and affordable – electric vehicles. Business Beyond looks at what legacy carmakers got wrong, what Beiing got right and how the next few years could reshuffle the global car industry.

大众和丰田等大型汽车制造商曾是中国最畅销的汽车制造商。如今，它们正迅速输给新一代中国车企，中国车企以物美价廉的先进电动汽车吸引了国内买家。传统汽车制造商做错了什么，中国做对了什么，未来几年全球汽车业将如何洗牌？

以下是Youtube网友的评论：

frankcoffey

Being "surprised" is a sign of poor leadership with poor vision. Company culture can be turned around quickly if you have a leader who is not stuck in paradigm paralysis. It also takes someone who is willing to stand up to pressure and attempted influence from other entities and industries.

感到“惊讶”是缺乏远见和领导力的表现。如果你有一个没有陷入范式瘫痪的领导者，公司文化可以迅速扭转。还需要有人愿意承受来自其他实体和行业的压力和试图施加的影响。

toyotaprius79

Not just the Germans, but most Western Automakers were warned that the more they delay in investing into R&D, the more expensive it'll be to remain competitive. Toyota and Mazda are the most infamous anti-ev players and they compromised themselves.

The incompetence of executives shouldn't be defended and bailed out, like the bankers of 2008.

The excuse was that there would never be any market demand for electric vehicles, or hybrids +15 years ago. That's why they all try to manipulate and lobby law makers, they're fundamentally anti-demicratic in our societies, only wanting to sell us what's most profitable for them - diesel premium SUVs.

But the writing and legislation was on the wall for over a decade and now they're frantic, not just because of Tesla but because BYD and other Chinese brand have mass-adoptable/affordable EVs that Tesla isn't bothered to make...

不仅是德国的，大多数西方汽车制造商都受到了警告，他们越是推迟对研发的投资，保持竞争力的成本就越高。丰田和马自达是最臭名昭著的反电动汽车玩家，他们自己妥协了。

不应该像2008年的银行家那样，为高管的无能辩护和纾困。

他们的借口是，在15年前，电动汽车或混动力汽车永远不会有任何市场需求。这就是为什么他们都试图操纵和游说立法者，他们在我们的社会中从根本上是反民 主的，只想向我们出售对他们来说最有利可图的东西——柴油高级SUV。

但十多年来，法律和法规一直在墙上写着，现在他们疯狂了，不仅仅是因为特斯拉，还因为比亚迪和其他中国品牌推出了大众消费得起的电动汽车

MarkWhippy

Oh no poor Volkswagen having to sell their cars at cheaper prices

哦，不，可怜的大众不得不以更低的价格出售汽车

frankcoffey

This is really bad news for VW because such a large percentage of their sales used to come from China. This is a great report. This is a good drill down of the change in the marketplace.

对大众来说这真是个坏消息，因为他们过去很大一部分的销量来自中国。这是一份很棒的报告，是对市场变化的深入研究。

yanglinluo

First of all, loved this unbiased report. 2ndly I just want to share what I saw in China last month as I just spent 4 weeks in Chengdu /dujiangyan in sep 2023. Brands wise, I saw plenty of European brands like telsea, BMW, audi, mercs as well as americans Lincoln, ford, etc. EV wise, a lot of more than I expected. When I was on highway between chengdu to dujiangyan, I could see an EV or hybrid every 5 seconds. Of course this does not apply everywhere. Dad reckons about 20-25% of all cars in China are EV or hybrid. Chinese eV brands wise, 3 main ones, byd, nio and xpeng, but there were at least another 5 Chinese brands I have never seen or heard before. (I live in New Zealand). Also, I noticed many taxs, buses, even dumpsters were powered by eV. I saw a few Huawei cars also. In New Zealand, there is almost zero news about Chinese EV development. I guess if there was more factual reporting, then less surprises we get

首先，我很喜欢这份公正的报道。其次，我想分享我上个月在中国看到的，我在2023年9月在成都都江堰待了4周。品牌方面，我看到了很多欧洲品牌，如特斯拉、宝马、奥迪、梅赛德斯，以及美国的林肯、福特等。电动汽车方面，比我预期的要好得多。

当我驱车在成都到都江堰的高速公路上行驶时，我每5秒钟就能看到一辆电动汽车或混动力汽车。当然，这并不适用于所有地方。

估计中国约有20-25%的汽车是电动汽车或混动力汽车。中国电动汽车品牌方面，主要有3个，比亚迪、蔚来和小鹏，但至少还有5个我从未见过或听说过的中国品牌(我住在新西兰)。

此外，我注意到许多出租车，公共汽车，甚至垃圾装卸车都是电动的。我也看到了一些华为汽车。

在新西兰，关于中国电动汽车发展的新闻几乎为零。我想如果有更多真实的报道，那么我们的惊讶就会少一些。

Ianmundo

Tesla created a revolutionary package of features with the model 3, best app connectivity, it was really quick, had great range, all wheel drive, electric memory leatherette seats, panoramic glass roof, good sound system, large modern infotainment with cellular, autopilot etc.

What did the Germans do in response? their electric cars were heavy and slower, less range, apps were clunky or non exstent, they were often two wheel drive, fabric seats, terrible infotainment systems and a list of expensive options.

New Chinese brands never messed around producing cars that were worse than the 2016 model 3, the benchmark had been set by Tesla, all other cars have to meet or exceed Tesla

特斯拉在Model 3上推出了一系列革命性的功能，最好的应用程序连接，速度很快，续航里程长，全轮驱动，电动记忆人造革座椅，全景玻璃车顶，优秀的音响系统，带蜂窝电话的大型现代信息娱乐系统，自动驾驶仪等。

德国人做了什么回应？他们的电动汽车又重又慢，行驶里程短，应用程序笨拙或根本不存在，它们通常是两轮驱动，织物座椅，糟糕的信息娱乐系统和一大堆昂贵的选择。

中国新品牌生产的汽车从来没有比2016年Model 3差，这是特斯拉设定的基准，所有其他汽车都必须达到或超过特斯拉

temper44

Funny thing is, Mercedes and BMW doesn't suffer like VW in China. They still sell well, because the Chinese want status cars. So maybe VW should push their status brands more in China, and use Volkwagen to experiment on designs and tech that they can use in Europe later. When China comes to Europe, they will have tech, but they lack name brands.

有趣的是，奔驰和宝马在中国的情况不像大众那样难，它们仍然卖得很好，因为中国人想要能彰显身份的车。因此，也许大众应该在中国更多地推广自己的高端品牌，并利用大众在设计和技术上进行试验，以便以后在欧洲使用。当中国来到欧洲时，他们会有技术，但他们缺乏名牌。

3phasetinkerer

Daimler changed the sales strategy earlier, changed volume based sales to focus at luxury segment.

I hope you cover this too at some point because Chinese cannot really compete with luxury segment German vehicles (at least not yet) considering the price-quality ratio.

戴姆勒早些时候改变了销售策略，将基于销量的销售改为专注于豪华车市场。

我希望你在某个时候也能报道这一点，因为考虑到性价比，中国车无法真正与德国豪车竞争，至少现在还不能

marktrinidad7650

So its Chinas fault for being able to determine future technologies? Its Chinas fault for being able to plan ahead that gave them edge?

所以能够决定未来技术是中国的错？因为他们能够提前计划，给了他们优势，所以是中国的错？

obsidianstatue

The car industry is THE pillar industry for Germany (thus most of EU) and Japan, these 2 countries/ regions are in for a bumpy economic future.

汽车工业是德国(欧盟大部分国家)和日本的支柱产业，这两个国家/地区的经济前景并不乐观。

protagonist9716

Chinese brands have taken over the Russian market and top EV sales in Thailand, Brazil, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, NZ, Israel, Costa Rica. They are expanding overseas quickly!

中国品牌已经占领了俄罗斯市场，并在泰国、巴西、马来西亚、新加坡、澳大利亚、新西兰、以色列、哥斯达黎加等国的电动汽车销量位居榜首。他们正在迅速向海外扩张

StirfriedGerman

I live in Guangdong China, 90% of Ubers and taxs are electric, the switch happened over the last couple of years from mostly Toyota  and BYD hybrids, accelerated by the gas price increase following Ukraine. VW had already lost their ride hail market share to Japanese and Chinese hybrids  since the late 2010s. But now even hybrids are becoming scarce. Honda sales caved, they closed their Acura division in China recently. I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus follows, I don't see any new ones on the road.  You can get a very nice large SUV here from Leapmotor for just over 20.000 Euro, currently hard to beat.

坐标中国广东，90%的优步和出租车都是电动的，这一转变发生在过去的几年里，主要是丰田和比亚迪的混动车，乌克兰事件后汽油价格上涨加速了这一转变。自2010年代末以来，大众的市场份额已经被日本和中国的混合动力车抢走。但现在，即使是混动车也变得稀缺。本田销量暴跌，他们最近关闭了在中国的讴歌部门。如果雷克萨斯紧随其后，我不会感到惊讶，在路上我没有看到任何新品牌。在这里，只需要20000欧元多点，你就能买一辆非常不错的领跑汽车大SUV，目前很难打败这个价格。

sharaththummalapally9150

A perfect lesson to all Pioneers in Car makers to learn at the same time a kick back to a German car maker. never underestimate the Enemie.

这是所有汽车制造商的先驱者都应该学习的一个完美的教训，同时也是对一家德国汽车制造商的回馈。永远不要低估敌人。

jimmyteppenpaw5287

The US needs really needs to get motivated and get their acts together if they want to compete in the electric market. There will be a day where all EV will pretty much look the same and everybody will look like they're driving the same vehicle, which maybe the exception of the color. Possibly accessories to differentiate themselves from others. It is my personal feeling and mine alone that I speak for myself that I believe all US manufacturers should be in the US. Not using the cheap labor forces abroad.

如果美国想在电动市场上竞争，他们真的需要动力，需要行动起来。总有一天，所有的电动汽车看起来都差不多，每个人看起来都像在开同一辆车，可能除了颜色不同，可能是用来区分自己和别人的配件。这是我个人的感觉，我认为所有的美国制造商都应该在美国本土生产，不使用国外的廉价劳动力。

mingouczjcz3800

Nowadays Chinese auto industry is moving onto the second phase of car electrification, intelligence-assited driving.

目前，中国汽车工业正进入汽车电动化、智能辅助驾驶的第二阶段。

takudzwamashamba7453

As a person who stays in Shanghai, I can definitely say that the electric cars particularly Chinese brands are prevalent. It is unfortunate that that western countries delayed to see the potential of electric car(and some still can’t see it). In the few years, Chinese electric cars will be in the future what the world Mercedes and bmws are to us today

作为一个在上海生活的人，我可以肯定地说，电动汽车，尤其是中国品牌的汽车很普遍。不幸的是，西方国家迟迟没有看到电动汽车的潜力(有些国家仍然看不到)。几年后，中国的电动汽车将在未来成为我们今天的奔驰和宝马

puffinjuice

Chinese brands will also dominate sales in the pacific (Australia & NZ). We already know that chinese tech is on par with Western brands, if not better!

中国品牌也将在太平洋地区(澳大利亚和新西兰)成为销冠。我们已经知道中国的科技与西方品牌不相上下，如果没有更好的话

rendezone

The 1.1 Million vehicle recall on Teslas will be fixed/has been fixed with an over-the-air software update, so it will cost virtually nothing.

特斯拉召回的110万辆汽车将通过无线软件更新修复，因此几乎不需要花费任何费用。

cancerino666

German car companies move very slowly. They are old companies that have held the market for so long, they haven't been forced to innovate for a long time and developed bad habits. They're old. They're bad. They need to change.

德国汽车公司的行动非常缓慢。他们是占据市场很长时间的老公司，他们长时间没有被迫创新，养成了坏习惯。他们老了，需要改变。

jcziviani

I live in Brazil. Just replaced a VW T-Cross for a BYD Dolphin. The same price, but Dolphin is a lot of better.

坐标巴西。刚把大众T-Cross换成了比亚迪海豚。同样的价格，但海豚要好得多。

micaeloliveira2727

I'm just a normal guy I saw this happening a long time ago how was it possible after watching Tesla be born and the world leader doesn't take action.

They thought they were unbeatable specially the Germans they thought the luxury and median class were not in danger  I'm 44 and for what I see unfortunately EU is a lost project.

Too old , too slow, too many rules and regulations lost his place in the modern world.

Middle east, USA, Canada, Mexco and India are blooming

我只是一个普通人，很久以前就看到这种事情发生了，在看到特斯拉诞生后，世界领头羊怎么可能不采取行动。

他们认为自己是不可战胜的，尤其是德国人，他们认为奢侈品和中产阶级没有危险。我今年44岁，不幸的是，在我看来，欧盟是失败的，太老，太慢，太多的规章制度，导致失去了他在现代社会的地位。

中东、美国、加拿大、墨西哥和印度都在蓬勃发展

TheJoshuaAstray

China has the whole supply chain from mines of key materials all the way to the EVs. Some key fields are absolutely dominated by China such as Li refining, Graphite anode materials, LFP cathode materials, furnaces and mills for producing those materials, cell assembly machines, etc. Those are not only for the conventional batteries. Whenever there's a new battery chemistry emerging, Chinese company can always rapidly bring it to commercialization thanks to their complete supply chain and large domestic market. This is true for the LFP batteries, and also true for the upcoming Na-ion batteries. Many US companies dream of using AI to allow them to catch up to the Chinese competitors, which is totally nonsense. Anyone who's skilled in machine learning and materials discovery will know that AI can do little in terms of accelerating material discovery despite the huge hype.

中国拥有从关键材料的矿山到电动汽车的整个供应链。一些关键领域，如锂精炼、石墨负极材料、LFP负极材料、生产这些材料的炉和磨、电池组装机等，中国处于绝对主导地位。

这些不仅仅适用于传统电池。只要有新的电池化学成分出现，中国公司总能迅速将其商业化，这得益于他们完整的供应链和庞大的国内市场。

LFP电池是如此，即将问世的钠离子电池也是如此。许多美国公司梦想利用人工智能来追赶中国竞争对手，这完全是胡说八道。

任何精通机器学习和材料发现的人都知道，尽管人工智能被大肆宣传，但它在加速材料发现方面几乎无能为力。

robertjohn6585

Germany depends on it's car manufacturing industry, with china kicking them out of it's domestic market and starting to take big bites out of the international market... germany is screwed, especially so because their cheap russian gas is gone now which puts even more financial pressure on the german manufacturing industry.

All of these things combined create the perfect storm for the german economy and could likely cause a massive reccession, the likes of which could eventually lead to france and Britain surpassing them if they cannot find a way to save their export market.

德国依赖汽车制造业，中国把他们赶出了国内市场，并开始在国际市场上刮分一大块份额…德国完蛋了，尤其是因为他们廉价的俄罗斯天然气现在没有了，这给德国制造业带来了更大的财务压力。

所有这些因素加在一起，为德国经济制造了一场完美的风暴，并可能导致大规模的衰退，如果法国和英国找不到拯救出口市场的方法，这种衰退最终可能会导致法国和英国超越德国。

markmd9

Musk told them that EV are the future but European and Japanese manufacturers were laughing, now they laugh no more.

马斯克告诉他们，电动汽车是未来，但欧洲和日本制造商笑了，现在他们不再笑了。

fitofito1001

Future of auto industry is not about EV but about self driving technology. This is where major profit come from.

汽车产业的未来不是电动汽车，而是自动驾驶技术，这是主要的利润来源。

Painted

I hope that in the near future, I will not need to own a personal vehicle at all, but can subscribe to an economical, on-demand robo-tax service.  Whenever I want to ride somewhere, I should be able to open an app on my phone and call for a Tesla somewhere in the neighborhood to come by and pick me up.  Also, with more people having this service, the need for large parking lots in cities will be much, much less.

The car company that makes this vision into reality will be the big winner.

我希望在不久的将来，我根本不需要拥有一辆私家车，而是可以订购一种经济的、按需的无人驾驶出租车服务。无论何时我想骑车去某个地方，我都可以打开手机上的应用程序，呼叫附近某个地方的特斯拉来接我。此外，随着越来越多的人拥有这项服务，城市对大型停车场的需求将大大减少。将这一愿景变为现实的汽车公司将是大赢家。