美国政府限制向中国和其他国家出口GeForce RTX 4090，美国reddit网民的评论

U.S. Govt Restricts Shipments of GeForce RTX 4090 to China, Other Countries

美国政府限制向中国和其他国家运送GeForce RTX 4090

Under the terms of the latest export rules imposed by the U.S. government, AMD, Intel, and Nvidia can no longer ship a number of their high-performance processors to China and a number of other countries without an export license from the U.S. Department of Commerce. In fact, the restrictions are so severe that shipments of Nvidia's AD102 processors are also restricted, which may have an impact on the supply of GeForce RTX 4090 graphics cards.

根据美国政府实施的最新出口规定，超微半导体、英特尔和英伟达在没有美国商务部出口许可证的情况下，不得再向中国和其他一些国家出口高性能处理器。此份限令非常严格，甚至对Nvidia的AD102处理器的出货量也进行了限制，这可能会对GeForce RTX 4090显卡的供应产生影响。

Given the demand for Nvidia's AI GPUs across the globe, the company does not expect its financial results in the near term to be affected by the new export rules. Meanwhile, it remains to be seen how these new export rules affect the production and prices of GeForce RTX 4090-based graphics cards, which are generally made in China. In a bid to comply with the new export rules, Nvidia will have to initiate production of GeForce RTX 4090 and other AD102-based products outside of China.

鉴于全球对英伟达人工智能图形芯片的需求，该公司预计短期内的业绩表现不会受到新出口限令的影响。但新限令如何影响基于GeForce RTX 4090的显卡的生产和价格还有待观察，这些显卡基本都是在中国制造的。为了遵守新的出口规定，英伟达将不得不在中国境外开始生产GeForce RTX 4090和其他基于AD102的产品。

Transferring production to Taiwan is perhaps not a problem for the vast majority of brands as the most of them are headquartered in Taiwan. There is one big exception, though. Colorful, which is one of Nvidia's major customers and which happens to be one of the world's largest graphics card manufacturers, only operates in China. Nvidia may attempt to supply as many AD102 GPUs to its partner as possible in the coming weeks, though it remains to be seen how this affects the supply of GeForce RTX 4090 products in other countries.

对于大多数品牌来说，将生产线转移到台湾是可行之道，因为它们中的大多数总部本来就设在台湾。不过，有一个例外。七彩虹是英伟达的主要客户之一，也是全球最大的显卡制造商之一，但企业设立在中国。英伟达可能会在未来几周内向其合作伙伴提供尽可能多的AD102 GPU，此举将如何影响GeForce RTX 4090产品在其他国家的供应，还有待观察。

Starting from November 16, 2023, Nvidia will be unable to ship its A100, A800, H100, H800, L40, L40S, and GeForce RTX 4090 cards and modules for AI and HPC computing to China, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Vietnam without an export license from the U.S. Department of Commerce's Bureau of Industry and Security.

从2023年11月16日开始，如果没有美国商务部工业和安全局的出口许可证，英伟达将无法向中国、沙特阿拉伯、阿拉伯联合酋长国和越南出口其用于人工智能和高性能计算的A100、A800、H100、H800、L40、L40S和GeForce RTX 4090存储卡和组件。

以下是美国reddit网友的评价：

polako123

it just gets shipped via other countries, they can't really stop other countries from selling them to China or Russia.

可以其他国家运输，他们无法阻止其他国家把芯片卖给中国或俄罗斯。

bizude

This will prevent any GPU stronger than a 4080 from being shipped to consumers in China. So it might not impact them much now, but future generations it will.

任何优于4080的GPU都无法运送到中国消费者手中。现在可能对他们影响不大，但对以后会有影响。

Veastli

Officially, yes. But gamers will still be able to buy ones and twos through secondary markets, or by bringing them back from foreign trips.

官方层面上是这样。但游戏玩家可以通过二级市场购买，或者出国时自己买回来。

Material_Tree_Bark

Yes, this is to stop state-level and corpos from buying 4090's by the literal ton for their AI and ML stuff.

是的，这是为了阻止国家和机构大量购买人工智能和机器学习产品。

Neat_Passion_6767

4090 makes no sense. AI training is IO limited. Single chip calculation power is only needed in Edge computing, but then 4090 makes no sense either due to power consumption being too high.

4090其实并没有意义。人工智能培训受限于输入输出的信息。在Edge处理中才需要单芯片计算能力，但4090芯片没有什么意义，因为功耗实在太高了。

lan69

Wholesalers still need to purchase them for retail markets. Are wholesalers going to be scrutinised now?

Because transport costs are going to skyrocket for these cards if they are only to be sold directly from manufacturer

批发商为了零售市场还是需要进行购买的。批发商会受到审查吗？

如果这些芯片只能直接从制造商手中进行销售，那么运输成本将会飙升。

Neat_Passion_6767

Retail GPU to make AI cluster is pointless, simply, not enough bandwidth. Huawei has exsting AI cluster products using 7nm chips today. Price is around $100 million for a cluster of 12,000 AI chips. I am not really sure what the new policy is trying to achieve other than making Huawei the biggest commercial success it can ever be. It is a $20 billion market this year, and can double it next year.

零售GPU让AI群集毫无意义，带宽不够。华为目前已开始使用7纳米芯片的AI群集产品了。1.2万个人工智能芯片群集的价格约为1亿美元。除了让华为取得有史以来最大的商业成功之外，我真的不清楚美国这项新政策的目的何在。今年的市场规模在200亿美元左右，明年可能还会翻一番。

Fortune424

It also includes A100/H100 and stuff. The headline is kind of silly not mentioning that, but the story does.

限令还包含了A100/H100等。标题居然都没有提到这一点，幸好内容提到了。

fire_in_the_theater

Huawei cannot build comparable chips. Intel and AMD can barely build comparable chips. AMD is getting close in the hardware, but is still held back by software.

it's only a matter of years at most. none of this is magic.

华为无法制造这种芯片。英特尔和AMD几乎无法制造出类似的芯片。AMD在硬件方面正在接近，但在软件方面仍处于落后地位。

最多也就是这几年的事，这也不是什么高深的魔法。

Veastli

For data center use they're not optimal, but retail cards are routinely used for AI, right now.

There is also the possibility of removing the GPU silicon from the PCB and installing it on a custom board.

对于数据中心的用途来说，它们都不是最佳选择，但目前零售的存储卡通常会用于人工智能。

也有可能从PCB上移除GPU硅并将其安装在定制板上。

thanix01

Damn Chinese aftermarket GPU brand are the only one that are not priced outrageously here in Thailand.

中国零件市场，GPU品牌是在泰国唯一一个价格还不会离谱的。

Jumba2009sa

Is this hitting consumers? I was about to buy a 4090 for my build in Saudi.

对消费者有影响吗？我打算在沙特购买4090。

Jumba2009sa

Even if it’s just directed at AI and HPC computing. A 4090 goes for €2600 in Saudi and it will be probably even more expensive now.

就算它只是用于人工智能和高性能计算。4090在沙特的售价是2600欧元，现在可能还会更贵。

Jumba2009sa

Man a couple of months it was at a low €1800 and I thought maybe the 4080super/ti would cause the local market to correct itself like how the 3090 price crashed and corrected after the crypto bubble.

几个月来，它一直处于1800欧元的低点，我想也许4080super/ti会导致当地市场自我修正，就像3090的价格在加密泡沫之后发生了崩溃和修正一样。

College_Prestige

Good chance they'll just grant licenses for consumer products

很有可能他们只会给消费端产品颁发许可证

RxBrad

Something-something they'll just buy it from Germany or some other back channel.

Whatever... like this entire thread won't get locked (and this comment removed) in 3.... 2....1

他们可以从德国或者其他渠道购买。

整个系列短期内是不可能被锁定的，这个评论会在3...2...1后被删

accuracy_FPS

Why they added other countries than china? I though china was the only one that had restrictions

为什么除了中国，他们还加了其他国家？我以为中国是唯一一个被限制的国家。

ahfoo

Yep, this is what happens when the powers that be scrub the net of what has happened historically.

Here is a question for those who believe this sort of technology sanction can be effective --when did China get sub-100nm lithography scanners for the first time?

没错，这就是当权者掩盖历史真相的结果。

对于那些相信这种技术制裁能发挥效果的人来说，我有个问题—中国什么时候才第一次拿到低于100纳米的光刻扫描仪？

ahfoo

Here is a little hint: The chips in the Sony Playstation II (PS2) were considered a restricted dual-use technology because they could also be used to make cruise missile guidance systems. Export of such lithography machines was restricted by an international treaty but an event that took place in 2003 led to a violation of that treaty. What was that event?

给大家一个小提示：索尼Playstation II (PS2)中的芯片被认为是受到限令影响的两用技术，因为它们也可以用来制造巡航导弹制导系统。这种光刻机的出口受到一项国际条约的限制，但2003年发生的一件事导致了该条约的违例。你们知道那件事吗？

ahfoo

Back in the early 2000s, Sony was kicking ass with a hugely popular gaming system called the Playstation II or the PS2 as it was commonly known. The chip technology at that time was near the 100nm process node. This sub 100nm tech that was going into devices like the PS2 was considered dual use because it could make great immersive games but it could also be used to, for example, guide a cruise missile. For that reason, a treaty was signed by many countries promising not to leak this technology to China.

早在21世纪初，索尼推出了一款非常受欢迎的游戏系统，名为Playstation II或PS2，因为它通常被称为PS2。当时的芯片技术接近100纳米制程节点。这种用于PS2等设备的低于100纳米的技术被认为具有双重用途，因为它即可以制作出色的沉浸式游戏，也可以用于引导巡航导弹等。出于这个原因，许多国家签署了一项条约，承诺不向中国泄露这项技术。

AnimeAlt44

The US government is using a 'national security' excuse to impose these trade restrictions in which case they need to follow predetermined country grous that were decided ages ago of which countries constitute which levels of risk.

美国政府以“国家安全”为借口实施这些贸易禁令，在这种情况下，他们需要遵循多年前就确定的预先确定的国家分组，哪些国家处于哪些风险水平。

algorithmic_ghettos

List of affected countries:

Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Belarus, Burma, Cambodia, Central African Republic, China, Democratic Republic of Congo, Cuba, Cyprus, Egypt, Eritrea, Georgia, Haiti, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, North Korea, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Macau, Moldova, Mongolia, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Sudan, Republic of Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Vietnam, Yemen, Zimbabwe

限制国家和地区名单:

阿富汗、亚美尼亚、阿塞拜疆、巴林、白俄罗斯、缅甸、柬埔寨、中非共和国、中国大陆、刚果民*共和国、古巴、塞浦路斯、埃及、厄立特里亚、格鲁吉亚、海地、伊朗、伊拉克、约旦、哈萨克斯坦、朝鲜、科威特、吉尔吉斯斯坦、老挝、黎巴嫩、利比亚、中国澳门、摩尔多瓦、蒙古、阿曼、巴基斯坦、卡塔尔、俄罗斯、沙特阿拉伯、索马里、南苏丹、苏丹共和国、叙利亚、塔吉克斯坦、土库曼斯坦、阿拉伯联合酋长国、乌兹别克斯坦、委内瑞拉、越南、也门、津巴布韦。

TwanToni

probably because it would be extremely easy to bypass the sanctions from those countries

可能是因为绕过这些国家的制裁非常容易

WeWantRain

They will just create a company in UAE and ship it from there.

他们会在阿联酋成立一家公司，从那里发货。

ahfoo

So here's the thing with technology restriction treaties --they don't work.

这就是技术限制条约的问题—它们完全没用。

Veastli

This isn't to stop gamers, or those that want one or two GPUs. Many users will still be able to source through secondary markets.

这个限令的目的不是为了阻止游戏玩家，或者那些想购买一两个GPU的人。多数用户仍然可以通过二级市场采购。

fire_in_the_theater

Sure, the chinese can try to buy them at retail a few at a time, but a single AI data center needs thousands, often tens of thousands of cards. And it's just not practicable to source that many, of the same type, same brand, and same configuration in the retail markets.

当然，中国可以尝试在零售市场一次购买一点，但一个人工智能数据中心就需要数千张，甚至数万张存储卡。在零售市场上采购那么多同类、同品牌和同配置的产品，简直是天方夜谭。

Veastli

China, like all nations, has limited resources. Even more so of late, given the pending collapse of their real estate market.

There are a great many technologies China doesn't have. Modern jet engines? China doesn't have competitive models. The same with modern passenger aircraft.

跟其他国家一样，中国的资源有限。

有很多技术中国还不具备。比如现代喷气发动机？中国没有具有竞争力的模式。现代客机也是如此。

AnimeAlt44

bitcoin asic didn't take all that long to surpass gfx cards, i don't see why tensor asics won't as well. u don't need the best node when u can just put more chips in the data center...

比特币芯片没花太长时间就超越了GFX卡，我觉得tensor芯片也会如此。你不需要最好的节点，只要在数据中心配置更多的芯片就够了。

Vitosi4ek

I'm sure if Nvidia really, truly wanted to track where each of their GPUs is ultimately shipped to, they could've done so.

我敢肯定，如果英伟达真的想要追踪GPU最终运到哪里，他们绝对能做到。