三泰虎

为什么英国衰落了,几百年来被掠夺的财富去哪里了

Why did Britain decline?  Where did the wealth plundered for hundreds of years go?

为什么英国衰落了?几百年来被掠夺的财富去哪里了?

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以下是Quora网友的评价:

Willy Gilder

Well, we are the world’s sixth largest economy - which isn’t bad going for a small island….

But our economy now is largely service industry based. We are a centre for finance, for insurance, for media, for education. We were, of course, the first industrialised nation - but our coal mines are closed, the shipyards shut and the blast furnaces are cold. This is partly because of the increasing scarcity of natural resources and because of globalisation - it’s cheaper to build ships in India and cars in China.

我们是世界第六大经济体—对于一个小岛来说,这已经很不错了....

但我们现在的经济主要是以服务业为基础。我们是金融、保险、媒体和教育的中心。当然了,我们是历史上第一个实现工业化的国家—但如今我们的煤矿关闭了,造船厂关闭了,高炉也冷却了。部分原因是自然资源的日益稀缺和全球化进程—在印度造船、在中国造汽车的成本更低。

Where did the money go? Look at our cities, with their grand Victorian buildings. We have a well developed infrastructure with virtually every home having clean water, indoor sanitation, heating, mains electricity and internet. The vast majority of people vive in good housing. We have good roads and railways. A Welfare State that educates every child, keeps people out of abject poverty and provides free healthcare for every citizen. We have advanced armed forces, a police service that is the envy of the world, and wherever you are in the country a fire engine will be with you quickly in an emergency. These things don’t come cheap.

至于钱去哪儿了?看看我们的城市,有着宏伟的维多利亚式建筑。我们有完善的基础设施,几乎每个家庭都有干净的水、室内卫生间、暖气、电力和互联网。绝大多数人住在好房子里。我们有完善的公路和铁路。我们是一个福利国家,每个孩子都能接受教育,人们摆脱赤贫,每个公民可以享受免费医疗。我们拥有先进的武装部队,令人艳羡的警察队伍,无论你身在何处,在紧急情况下,消防车都会迅速赶到你身边。这些东西可都不便宜呢。

 

 

 

Martin Hedington

Financially, is hasn’t declined. The ‘Powers that be’ hid it all away in offshore stash accounts, along with a large chunk of criminal assets over the last few hundred years. Watch the documentary ‘The Spiders Web, Britain’s Second Empire’.

在经济上,英国并没有衰落。在过去几百年里,“当权者”把这些钱连同一大笔犯罪资产都藏匿在海外的隐秘账户里。大家可以看看纪录片《蜘蛛网,大英第二帝国》。

 

 

 

Vespasiantitus

The reason for our decline was because we were the world’s policeman. If you have a problem the British will send a gunboat. We had the largest Empire ever known, we had the largest and strongest navy ever seen. Now we are a First Nation. Why, because of our participation in two of the worlds greatest wars from the begng to the end.All our gold and other assets were given to buy weapons of war. For our size we have armed forces that can hold their own against anyone. It is a pity that for decades we have had politicians whose ideas were imperialistic. Do you notice in Europe the countries that are stable and financially sound and have no overseas commitments are at the top of the tree. Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark and Luxembourg. Why can’t we be like that? Keep out of the limelight and mind our own business.

我们衰落的原因是因为我们曾经是世界警察。如果你遇到问题,英国人就会派炮舰驰援。我们曾经是有史以来最大的帝国,我们曾经拥有史上最大最强的海军。现在我们是第一民族。为什么?因为我们全程参与了两场世界上最大的战争。我们把所有的黄金和资产都用来购买战争武器了。就我们的规模而言,我们的武装力量可以对抗任何国家。

但遗憾的是,几十年来,英国一直有一些固守帝国主义思想的政客。你注意到了吗,欧洲那些社会稳定、财政健全、没有海外负担的国家都位于顶级行列吗?比如瑞典、瑞士、丹麦和卢森堡。为什么我们不能像他们一样呢?远离聚光灯,管好自己的事,这最重要。

 

 

 

Mark Errington

A couple of examples:

Robert Clive made himself one of the richest men in Europe by plundering in India on the back of military triumphs by the East India Company. The money may have come back to Britain, but very little of it was released from the top of the food chain to lower down.

At the height of the British Empire, say mid-Victorian times, there was a huge gulf between the wealthy and the poor.

我来举几个例子:

罗伯特·克莱夫借着东印度公司的军事胜利,在印度大肆掠夺,让自己成了欧洲最富有的人之一。这些钱也许回流到了英国,但流向下层的并不多。

在大英帝国的鼎盛时期,比如维多利亚时代中期,贫富之间存在着巨大的鸿沟。

When the slave trade was abolished, a major drain on the exchequer was paying compensation, not to the slaves, but to the owners.

Sadly enough, the present government appear to be operating according to Victorian rules.

当奴隶贸易被废除时,国库有一项主要开支就是支付赔偿金,但赔偿金并不是付给奴隶,而是付给奴隶主。

可悲的是,现任政府似乎还在沿用维多利亚时代的规则。

 

 

 

David Powell

It turns out that unilaterally ending the Atlantic Slave Trade, defending the world from fascist tyranny twice within thirty years and then kee the Iron Curtain closed is a very expensive and thankless undertaking. Nonetheless, Britain put its shoulder to wheel, kept its upper lip stiff and did its bit for human civilisation.

In truth, Britain's decline has been relative not absolute. It defied the traditional fall of empires narrative. Ending in a mostly peaceful whimper, after seeds of occidental culture had spread and took root - spawning some of the world’s most successful and stable de ocracies.

事实证明,单方面结束大西洋奴隶贸易,在30年内两次保护世界免受法西斯暴证的统治,然后耗费巨资又吃力不讨好地封锁铁幕。尽管如此,英国还是挺起腰板,为人类文明尽了自己的一份力量。

事实上,英国的衰落只是相对的,并不是绝对的。它颠覆了传统的帝国衰亡之路。在西方文化的种子传播并生根发芽—催生了一些世界上最成功、最稳定的皿煮国家—之后,在基本平静的抱怨声中结束了。

As for the wealth. The UK has some architectural monuments, a rich collection of cultural artefacts and a thick entry in the annals of world history to show for its sun not setting/workshop of the world period, but ultimately it is a zero-sum game and time is a great equaliser.

Britain’s wealth was long ago exchanged for goods and services with overseas counterparties. During the 19th century, Britain had the world’s largest current account surplus. Today it has the world’s second highest deficit.

In 2022 the UK had a trade deficit of £92 billion with the European Union in contrast to a £5 billion surplus with the rest of of the world.

再来说说财富。英国有一些建筑古迹,有丰富的文化文物收藏,世界历史编年史上用厚重的笔墨描述了日不落帝国/世界工厂时期的盛况,但最终都只是零和游戏,时间真的是一个伟大的均衡器。

很久以前,英国就用财富和海外各国进行商品和服务的交易活动。19世纪,英国拥有全球最大的经常账户盈余。如今,英国的赤字位居世界第二。

2022年,英国对欧盟的贸易逆差为920亿英镑,而对世界其他地区的贸易顺差为50亿英镑。

So continental Europe is the answer to ‘where did the wealth go’. Fighting the world wars and then tip a third of trillion GBP in net budget contributions into the European project exacted a huge economic toll on Britain’s finances.

All is not lost. The push back against the intellectually vacuous post-colonialism movement is nascent but gathering pace. The UK is no longer part of the EU and is on track to overtake Germany by the mid-2030s to again become Europe’s number one economy and will likely remain a top ten world economy into the 2050s.

因此,欧洲大陆就是英国财富的终点站。英国参与了两次世界大战,把三分之一万亿英镑的净预算贡献给了欧洲,这对英国的财政造成了巨大的经济损失。

对思想空虚的后殖民*义运动的反击刚刚开始,但步伐正在加快。英国已经脱欧,有望在本世纪30年代中期超过德国,再次成为欧洲第一大经济体,并有望在本世纪50年代保持世界十大经济体的地位。

 

 

 

Daniel Rendell

Britain didn't decline, we are far richer than we were at the end of empire. Other countries have caught up. This is a good thing. Money makes money, it's far better to be a rich nation in a world of rich nations, than a rich nation in a world of poor nations.

英国并没有衰落,现在比帝国末期还富裕得多。其他国家也迎头赶上了。这是一件好事。钱会生钱,在富国世界里做一个富国,比在穷国世界里做一个富国要好得多。

Wealth wasn't really plundered. Wealth in the British empire was created by allowing trade to occur over a wide area. Trade moves assets from areas of low value to areas of high value. Much of the wealth created was then spent on the administration of the empire.

Britain became rich due the the industrial revolution and being able to sell the goods produced across the world. Today with so much international trade, and at least some semblance of international order, British businesses can do this without the expense of empire.

英国的财富也并没有消耗殆尽。大英帝国的财富是通过在广阔的区域内进行贸易而创造出来的。贸易活动将资产从低价值地区转移到高价值地区。创造出来的大部分财富被用于帝国的管理。

英国因为工业革命而变得富有,也能够将生产的商品销售到世界各地。如今,国际贸易如此发达,而且至少在表面上有了国际秩序,英国企业即便没有帝国护体,也能正常进行贸易。

 

 

 

Barnaby Lane

Britain did not decline. Today, it is wealthier than it has ever been in its history. What has happened is that formerly less developed countries have become developed. In other words, Britain has been subject to relative decline. Maybe that’s your definition of decline but if that’s the case, every western nation has declined.

As for the British empire, well that was about 200 years ago. Nothing about modern Britain has anything to do with whatever happened then.

英国并没有衰败。它如今比历史上任何时候都要更加富裕。现在的情况是,从前的欠发达国家变成了发达国家。换句话说,英国处于相对衰落的状态。也许这就是你对衰落的定义,但如果是这样的话,那么每个西方国家都在衰落。

至于大英帝国,那都是200年前的老黄历了。现代的英国和当时的帝国已经毫无关系。

 

 

 

Stephen Tempest

Britain didn’t decline. Other countries caught up with them.

Britain didn’t ‘plunder wealth’, they traded and invested. The wealth went into those investments.

英国并没有衰落。只是其他国家都迎头赶上了。

英国也没有“掠夺财富”,他们只是进行了贸易和投资,而这些投资带来了财富。

 

 

 

Stig Tofting

Much of the wealth plundered from various countries during the colonial period was hidden away by British elites into a network of global offshore tax havens that still operate to this day. Examples include Jersey, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands etc.

殖民时期从各国掠夺来的大部分财富,都被英国精英们藏进了离岸避税天堂网络,这个网络至今仍在运作。例如泽西岛、英属维尔京群岛、开曼群岛等。

 

 

 

Alex

The decline and eventual end of the British Empire can be attributed to a combination of complex and interconnected factors.

Several key factors contributed to the decline and dissolution of the British Empire:

大英帝国的衰落和结局可以归因于一系列复杂而相互关联的因素。

几个关键因素导致了大英帝国的衰落和解体:

1.Economic Challenges: The economic burden of maintaining a global empire, combined with the costs of two world wars, strained Britain's resources and contributed to a gradual erosion of its economic dominance. The empire's financial sustainability faced challenges as colonial territories increasingly demanded greater autonomy, and the costs of maintaining control over diverse regions became unsustainable.

1.经济困境:在全球范围内维持帝国运行的经济负担,加上两次世界大战的成本,使英国的资源十分紧张,经济主导地位逐渐受到冲击。帝国殖民地纷纷要求自治,英国想要继续控制不同地区的成本已无法持续,帝国的财政可持 续性面临沉重挑战。

2.Nationalism and Decolonization: The rise of nationalist movements and demands for independence from colonial territories, particularly in the mid-20th century, led to decolonization efforts and the gradual dismantling of the empire. This process was influenced by global shifts in political and moral attitudes toward colonialism and self-determination, as well as international pressure for decolonization.

2.民族主义和非殖民化:20世纪中期民族主义运动的兴起和殖民领土独立的要求,导致了非殖民化的努力和帝国的逐渐解体。这一进程受到了对殖民 主义的政治和道德态度的全球转变以及要求结束殖民化的国际压力的影响。

3. Global Geopolitical Changes: The emergence of new global power dynamics, including the rise of the United States and the Soviet Union as superpowers, reshaped the geopolitical landscape and challenged Britain's position as a dominant global player.

4. Changing International Norms: The growing international consensus against imperialism, colonialism, and exploitation of indigenous populations shifted the political and moral climate, leading to increased pressure on Britain to relinquish its colonies.

5. World Wars and Imperial Overextension: The two world wars placed significant strains on Britain's resources and global influence, and the empire's overextension became increasingly untenable in the aftermath of the conflicts.

3. 全球地缘政治变化:新的全球力量格局的出现,包括美国和苏联作为超级大国的崛起,重塑了地缘政治格局,挑战了英国昔日全球霸主的地位。

4. 不断变化的国际规范:反对帝国主义、殖民    主义和剥削原住民的国际共识日益增长,改变了政治和道德氛围,导致英国放弃殖民地的压力越来越大。

5. 两次世界大战和帝国的过度扩张:两次世界大战对英国的资源和全球影响力造成了严重的压力,帝国的过度扩张在冲突中也变得越来越站不住脚。

While the financial challenges and economic losses certainly played a role in the empire's decline, it is important to recognize that the end of the British Empire was the result of a complex interplay of historical, political, economic, and social factors.

虽然金融挑战和经济损失肯定在帝国的衰落中发挥了一定作用,但我们还是要明白,大英帝国的终结是历史、政治、经济和社会因素复杂相互作用的结果。

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