Why has the European Union allowed China to take over the solar panel industry?

为什么欧盟允许中国称霸太阳能电池板产业？

以下是Quora网友的评论：

Ned Ford

China makes wind, solar and nuclear power for about half the cost of Western nations. If anyone wants to claim it is all subsidies, they can go right ahead, but the obvious difference is labor costs and the less obvious one is the Chinese control of exchange rates, which is no longer absolute.

I always want to make the point that Chinese nuclear plants still cost so much more than wind or solar farms that the cost per KWh from nuclear is still three to five times the cost of a KWh from wind or solar farms, even with the radical difference between all the energy resources in China and the same resources in the West.

中国制造风能、太阳能和核能的成本大约是西方国家的一半。如果有人争辩这都是因为政府补贴，那他们爱怎么想就怎么想，但有一个明显的区别，那就是劳动力成本，还有一个不那么明显的区别，就是中国对汇率的控制，这不再是绝对的。

我很想指出一点，中国核电站的成本仍然远远高于风能或太阳能发电场，每千瓦时核电的成本仍然是风能或太阳能成本的3-5倍。

So from the Western perspective, does it make more sense to buy domestic stuff, or take advantage o the cheap Chinese labor and the favorable (to us) exchange rate? My take on this is U.S. oriented, but I think everything that I say is amplified given the higher cost of fossil and nuclear energy in Europe. If a U.S. wind or solar farm is built using Chinese turbines or solar panels, it still uses a lot of U.S. steel and labor and electronics, and not to overcomplicate it, a lot of profits are made in the U.S., jobs are created in the U.S., and customers enjoy dramatic energy savings in the U.S.

所以从西方的角度来看，是买国货更有意义，还是利用中国的廉价劳动力和对我们有利的汇率？欧洲的石油价格和核能成本更高。如果美国的风力或太阳能发电厂使用中国的涡轮机或太阳能电池板，它会使用大量的美国钢铁、劳动力和电子产品，所以别把事情搞复杂化，很多利润是在美国创造的，就业机会是在美国创造的，消费者在美国进行了大量节能。

I even go so far as to suggest that Chinese wind and solar manufacturing may be one of the most capitalistic things they do that isn’t falling apart on them right now. It might be their path out of the otherwise serious slowdown, and it might be a path to a more charitable relationship between some or all nations. China is clearly using wind and solar to promote economic development in many other less developed countries from the Phillipines to African nations and South America.

We don’t get good answers with simplistic assumptions. We get them by serious consideration of complicated situations. But the situations get a lot simpler to consider if you take a top down economic view from the perspective of as many parties as you can.

我还认为，中国的风能和太阳能制造业可能是他们目前还未崩溃的最具资 本主义性质的行业之一。

这可能是他们摆脱严重经济放缓的途径，也可能让某些国家或所有国家之间建立更宽和的关系。

显然，中国正在利用风能和太阳能来促进菲律宾、非洲国家和南美等许多欠发达国家的经济发展。

用简单的假设无法得到好的答案。我们要通过对复杂情况进行认真考虑，才能得到好的答案。

但是，如果你从各方的角度采纳自上而下的经济观点，情况就会变得简单得多。

I do want to see a European renewable industry thrive. Same in the U.S. My state is home to the only U.S. based solar manufacturer that isn’t a cardboard box with some papers in it. They are doing quite nicely, but they suffer from cheaper Chinese panels. That’s not a question I could answer without some lawmakers and some large industrial customers at the table, but I suspect it has something to do with tactful use of subsidies for the time being, always making sure that the subsidies are small compared to the eventual benefits.

That’s one of the many anti-clean energy myths in the U.S. I don’t know how it works in Europe. We don’t have a lot of real subsidies in the energy business, but everything, coal, natural gas, wind, solar, hydropower, biomass, geothermal and nuclear power all get tax credits. Nuclear power also gets massive subsidies, and the rooftop solar industry gets subsidies from some states. But tax credits don’t cost the U.S. Treasury a cent unless the private investor makes some money, and since most energy tax credits are limited to ten years, the Treasury gets a net increase in revenue for any wind or solar tax credits.

我确实希望看到欧洲的可再生能源产业蓬勃发展。美国也是如此。我所在的州是美国唯一一家不用纸箱装纸的太阳能制造商。

他们做得不错，但也受到了中国廉价电池板的影响。如果立法者和大型工业客户没有参与，我无法回答这个问题。

这是美国许多反清洁能源的神话之一，我不知道欧洲是如何运作的。我们在能源行业的真正补贴并不多，但所有的能源，煤炭、天然气、风能、太阳能、水电、生物质能、地热和核能，都获到了税收抵免。

核能也得到了大量补贴，屋顶太阳能产业也得到了一些州政府的补贴。但是，除非私人投资者真的赚到钱，否则税收抵免也不会让美国财政部花费一分钱。

而且大多数能源税收抵免限定在10年内，所以任何风能或太阳能税收抵免都可以让财政部的收入出现净增长。

The Vogtle nuclear plant came on line this year and Georgia Power customers got a 9% rate increase on top of another similar one a decade or so for “construction work in progress”, here in the U.S. I thought the plant would set the world record for most expensive nuclear plant ever built, but the Hinckley Point C plant is devastating our “achievement”. The Vogtle cost looks to be done at about $38 billion, including a $4 billion that was refunded from Westinghouse when they went out of business and $12 billion of the remainder is Federal subsidies, which are called “loans”, but cannot be repaid. See, it is legal to buy rooftop solar in Georgia, unlike past nuclear experiences, and if those panels come from China, they will still undercut the new cost of electricity in Georgia by a healthy margin.

沃格特尔核电站今年投入运营，而另一个核电站因为一直“在建”，所以佐治亚电力公司将电价提价了9%。

我本以为这座核电站将创造有史以来最昂贵核电站的世界纪录，但欣克利角C核电站打破了我们的“成就”。

沃格特尔核电站项目的成本预计为380亿美元，其中40亿美元是西屋公司破产时偿还的，剩下的120亿美元是联邦政府用“贷款”的名义补贴的，但已经无力偿还。

所以，在格鲁吉亚购买屋顶太阳能是合法的，如果这些电池板来自中国，它们也会降低格鲁吉亚的发电成本。

Shing

“Allowed “is a great word! So, I would like to use this word to ask the following questions:

Why did US/EU “allow” China to win the Olympic gold medals? (First one at 1984)

why did US/EU “allow” China to be the top score country in the PISA?

Why did US/EU “allow” China to build the space station?

So on ………….

“允许”是一个很棒的词！我呢只想用这个词来提问以下几个问题：

为什么美国/欧盟“允许”中国赢得奥运金牌？(中国在1984年夺得首枚奥运会金牌)

为什么美国/欧盟“允许”中国成为“国际学生能力评估计划”得分最高的国家？

为什么美国/欧盟“允许”中国建造空间站？

等等......

On 26 February 1979, it’s the first time I went to China and I clearly understood what China was to be expecially in the first half of 20 century. As a Chinese with passion for my country and people (not the same as the mainland Chinese whom can only say long live for……..), my heart is breeding, my eyes are full of tears whenever I open the modern Chinese history books because it was full of “to be allowed “ or “not to be allowed “ to China by any countries in the world e.g. the great Japan empire was the only country can build any railway in Manchuria. The worst case is; in 1943 when China was one of the alliance country to fight the WWll and China was seeking to sign the new treaty with all countries in the world to replace the unequal treaties for hundreds years. There’s two countries said: when all countries in the world have a new treaty with China, my country will be happy to do so — Luxembourg & Liechtenstein.

1979年2月26日，我第一次来到中国大陆，我清楚地知道中国在20世纪上半叶是什么模样。作为中国人，作为热爱我的祖国和人民的人(我和中国大陆人不一样，他们只能高呼万岁......), 每当我打开中国近代历史书籍，我的心都在滴血，我的眼里噙满泪水，因为书里充斥着列强国家对中国所谓的“允许”或“不许”，比如日本帝国是唯一获许在满洲修建铁路的国家。1943年，当中国成为第二次世界大战的同盟国时，中国希望与世界各国签订新的条约来取代数百年来的各种不平等条约，有两个国家说：如果世界上所有国家都和中国签订了新条约，我们国家才会签—这两个国家就是卢森堡和列支敦士登。

Back to the question, China produces 95% silicon carbide for the world with purity of 0.000000000001% that’s no other country can do it. That means that you have to buy the raw material from China. Also China’ solar panels is 45% cheaper than EU not only because of scale of population but also technological advancement.

回到你的问题上来，中国为全世界生产了95%的碳化硅，纯度为0.000000000001%，其他国家无一能够做到。这意味着你必须从中国购买原材料。此外，中国的太阳能电池板比欧盟便宜45%，原因不仅是因为中国的劳动力更多，也是因为中国的技术水平更高。

Shi Ting Ger

because they want to make China strong in order to fight USA.

Europe knows who is holding them at ransom, and it is not Russia.

If Europe is in chaos, they flee to US.

Money, brain, labor.

因为他们想让中国变得更加强大，帮他们对抗美国。

欧洲也很清楚究竟是谁在勒索他们，绝不是俄罗斯。

如果欧洲陷入混乱，资金、人才、劳动力就逃往美国了。

KokHin Lim

Who the fxxk is European Union again? They control who gets to do anything? They are some bunch if despicable nations that used barbarism on the develo world for 400 years and plunder, Robbed as raped its wealth and the say yes or no to who can make better stuffs! Are you out of your mind? Racist! If Europeans can make any stuff better, cheaper and faster the world will buy from them. If the cannot, go sulk in the corner for the next 400 years!

欧盟是什么玩意儿？他们能管得着谁能做什么不能做什么吗？欧盟就是一伙卑鄙的国家，对发展中国家实施了400年的野蛮统治，掠夺、洗劫了发展中国家的财富，对其他国家的产品掌握生杀大权！你们疯了吗？你们这是种族歧视！如果欧洲人自己能造出更优质、更便宜的产品，生产速度更快，世界各国就会向他们采购了。如果不能，就滚一边去吧，自己在角落里生个400年的闷气吧！

Allan Kay

Is it out of generosity that those f*cking Europeans grant China that exclusive privilege?

Should I try to extract solar energy with European made ones, it’ll be cheaper to run some diesel generators instead.

EU members are too busy recruiting new members to fight an enemy which they created that resulted with an uncompetitive production due wastage of time and resources. They may even shift the blame on the Nordstream episode otherwise China has no way to outdo them; whatever.

那些该死的欧洲人给予中国排他性的特权是因为他们慷慨大方吗？

如果我想用欧洲制造的太阳能电池板来生产太阳能，那么还不如用柴油发电机来得便宜。

欧盟成员国忙于招募新的成员国来对抗他们一手造成的敌人，他们浪费时间和资源，所以生产缺乏竞争力。他们甚至还把责任推到北溪事件上，否则中国是没有办法超越他们的。

Donald Rich

The US and EU have strict pollution controls that make the manufacture of solar panels uncompetitive in these areas. It is a process of “enlightened countries” exporting their polluting industries to develo countries and just getting the “clean” products in return.

美国和欧盟有着严格的污染控制措施，因此太阳能电池板的制造生产在这些地区缺乏竞争力。这是一个“开明国家”向发展中国家出口污染工业，然后得到“清洁”产品作为回报的过程。

Aozao Zhou

When American operating systems monopolize the Chinese market, when German Siemens' high-end medical devices monopolize the Chinese market, and even when American and European sanitary brands monopolize the Chinese toilet and faucet market, I don't see Americans and Europeans thinking that this is unacceptable

So why are you surprised that China's dominant industries monopolize a market?

当美国的操作系统垄断了中国市场，当德国西门子的高端医疗器械垄断了中国市场，甚至当欧美的卫浴品牌垄断了中国的马桶和水龙头市场时，美国人和欧洲人也不会觉得这有问题，无法忍受啊。

那么，你为什么会对中国在某些行业实现垄断地位而感到惊讶呢？

Sanna

EU does not control China or it’s industries. Most things manufactured, including solar panels, are manufactured in China.

欧盟没有控制中国或中国的工业。大多数制造业产品，包括太阳能电池板，都是在中国制造的。

James Stewart

Well, the Chinese populace work for much less than anyone in the EU. The average yearly wage for a worker is $5,434, and in the EU around $68,000. An EU worker is payed about 12.5 times more.

China uses coal energy, about 58%, hydroelectric at about 16%, nuclear at 11%, 8% renewables, and natural gas at 12%.

China manufactures 90% of all solar panels in the world due to bargain basement wages for mining manufacturing, and transportation.

中国民众的工资比欧盟各国都要低得多。一名工人的平均年薪是5434美元，而欧盟工人的平均年薪大约是68000美元。欧盟工人的工资大约是中国工人的12.5倍。

中国使用的煤炭能源约占58%，水电约占16%，核能占11%，可再生能源占8%，天然气占12%

中国制造了世界上90%的太阳能电池板，因为中国采矿、制造和运输等行业的工资很低。