Rise of Chinese science: A worry for the West?

中国科学的崛起：令西方担忧？

Five years ago, an article in The Economist famously asked this question: "Can China become a scientific superpower?" Just recently, that same magazine offered an answer, but appearing as another question with this title: "The rise of Chinese science, welcome or worrying?" What is the progress of China's scientific sector? What does it mean for the world and humanity? And finally, given the ongoing tensions between China and the U.S., should the two countries collaborate more or less?

Guests in this edition of Dialogue are Liu Ke, chair professor of Southern University of Science & Technology, dean of the School of Innovation & Entrepreneurship and dean of the Clean Energy Institute; Carl Fey, professor of strategy at BI Norwegian Business School in Oslo and affiliated scholar at the Boao Forum for Asia; Warwick Powell, senior fellow at the Taihe Institute; and Pascal Coppens, keynote speaker, author & China expert.

五年前，《经济学人》上的一篇文章提出了一个著名的问题：“中国能成为一个科学超级大国吗？”就在最近，这本杂志给出了答案，但却出现了另一个问题，标题是：“中国科学的崛起，该欢迎还是令人担忧？”

中国科学的进展如何？这对世界和人类意味着什么？最后，考虑到中美之间持续的紧张局势，两国应该或多或少地合作吗？

本期对话嘉宾为南方科技大学讲席教授、创新创业学院院长、清洁能源研究院院长刘珂；Carl Fey，奥斯陆BI挪威商学院战略教授，博鳌亚洲论坛附属学者；泰和研究所高级研究员Warwick Powell；主讲人、作家、中国问题专家Pascal Coppens

以下是各国网友的评论：

tuppenceworth5485

In the early days, many Chinese scientists and engineers made valuable contributions towards atomic and rocket propulsion projects in US. Like their forbear predecessors who went to help build the railways, they were subjected to racism and many of the scientists and engineers were hounded from their jobs during the McCarthy era and has continued to this day.

早期，许多中国科学家和工程师为美国的原子能和火箭推进项目做出了宝贵贡献。就像他们的前辈去帮助美国修建铁路一样，他们也受到了种族歧视，许多科学家和工程师在麦卡锡时代被赶离了工作岗位，这种状况一直持续到今天。

horridohobbies

I disagree with Carl Fey. I believe the Chinese are very creative and innovative. I can see this in all the science and technology reporting from China in recent years. Most of these developments have been truly jaw-drop.

And let's not forget all the Chinese scientists and engineers who were trained in China, then migrated to the USA to work. They contributed a lot to the US tech industry.

Technology patents also reflect creativity and innovation. Last year, China was granted more tech patents than the USA and Japan combined!

我不同意卡尔·菲的观点。我相信中国人极具创造力和创新精神。这一点可以从中国近年来取得的科技成就中可以看出来。这些成就大多数确实令人瞠目结舌。

我们不要忘记那些在中国接受培训，然后移民到美国工作的中国科学家和工程师。他们为美国科技行业做出了巨大贡献。

技术专利也反映了创造力和创新性。去年，中国获得的技术专利数量超过了美国和日本的总和！

user-sf1nq9uj7p

The decline in Science and Technology in the West compared to China has all been self-inflicted. This decline began around the end of the 1960s when studious students in STEM studies were derided by society and the community at large as "nerds" and "four-eyed book-worms" while those in the study of law subjects and involved in sports like basketball, baseball, grid-iron football, golf, tennis, etc were lauded and given prominence in society with huge financial rewards. Student loans also took a large toll on those taking up more costly STEM courses that took more number of years to complete than those in the Arts and Humanities (social studies, etc) to achieve a degree.

People being people, the majority will always try to look for the easiest way out of a situation and if getting a degree in say, business management only takes 3 years while another course in STEM takes an extra year or two to complete with a lower chance in getting a high paying job, of course, going for an easier and shorter course with a greater chance in getting employment and repay that student loan would be the route to take.

So, what happens is that the nation ends up with far more graduates in the arts and humanities such as law, economics, accountancy and business than in engineering, architecture, medicine, biotech, etc.

与中国相比，西方科技在衰落，这是西方自己造成的。这种衰落始于20世纪60年代末左右，当时在STEM研究中勤奋好学的学生被社会和整个社区嘲笑为“书呆子”和“四眼书虫”，而那些学习法律科目并参与篮球、棒球、铁栅足球、高尔夫、网球等运动的学生则受到赞扬，并在社会上获得巨大的经济回报。

学生贷款也对那些学习成本更高的STEM课程的人造成了很大的压力，这些课程比艺术和人文学科（社会研究等）的学生要花更多的年才能获得学位。

大多数人总是会寻找最简单的方法来摆脱困境，如果获得商业管理等学位只需要3年时间，而另一门STEM课程则需要多付出一两年时间才能完成，而且获得高薪工作的机会较低，当然会选择更容易、更短的课程，获得就业和偿还学生贷款的机会更大

结果，与工程、建筑、医学、生物技术等专业相比，美国最终拥有的法律、经济、会计和商业等艺术和人文学科的毕业生要多得多。

user-ed9so2rb4k

Seriously, EU over the past 2 decades had concentrated on football which must be the greatest generator of revenues and in USA, you have basket ball, American football, base ball, Fighting Club and lastly Woke-ism and certainly not the least important as the most productive sector; so why complain?

说真的，欧盟在过去20年里一直迷恋足球，足球是最大的收入来源，而在美国，有篮球、美式足球、垒球、格斗俱乐部，最后还有沃克主义，这些事最具生产力的部门，为什么要抱怨呢？

unreliablenarrator6649

I have to disagree with Professor Liu Ke on AI. China may be lagging by a few months on GenAI, but making rapid progress and also have some of the top innovators recognized in the world. Perhaps this is not his subject?

刘珂教授在人工智能方面的观点，我不敢苟同。中国在生成AI方面可能落后了几个月，但进步很快，也有一些世界上公认的顶尖创新者。

larrysherk

We look upon all these opportunities as threats. How pitiful !

我们居然把这些机会视为威胁。真可怜！

len2063

Still waiting for a great new Chinese innovations. They have made many improvements of western innovation. Implementation of innovation in the society is the real gamechanger and China have done very well.

仍在等待中国给我们带来一个伟大的创新。他们对西方的创新做出了许多改进。在社会中实施创新才是最重要的，中国做得很好。

wynetsang

Science and Civilisation in China (1954–present) is an ongoing series of books about the history of science and technology in China published by Cambridge University Press. It was initiated and edited by British historian Joseph Needham (1900–1995). China has several thousand years of tech experience while the West only has several hundred years since the Dark Age.

《中国科学与文明》（1954年至今）是剑桥大学出版社正在出版的一系列关于中国科学技术史的书籍。它是由英国历史学家李约瑟（1900–1995）发起和编辑的。中国有几千年的科技经验，而西方只有几百年

hasch5756

Personal experience: I obtained my masters degree in mathematics at a German university and it still took me half a year and dozens of multiple-round applications to find a job, and then it was as a programmer rather than a mathematician. Even if you somehow manage to navigate the sprawling red tape rampant at Western universities, even if you are in the privileged position of not suffocating in student debt, the future of STEM students in the West is no longer guaranteed. This is unmistakably a product of the chronic lack of funding of universities, the EU might sometimes pour money into individual prestige projects, but the ordinary procedures of research and teaching apparently aren't glamorous to warrant a sufficient investment. I worked at the same university as a student tutor, and while this was very fun and a recommendable experience, it actually paid less than getting unemployment benefits; it is a job you cannot work as an employee because it would violate the labour laws. When universities cannot even afford to hire regular workers, you got yourself a recipe for scientific, technological, and cultural decline.

个人经历：我在德国一所大学获得了数学硕士学位，但我还是花了半年时间和几十次申请才找到一份工作，是程序员而不是数学家。

即使你以某种方式驾驭了西方大学泛滥的繁文缛节，即使你不会背负过重的学生贷款负担，西方STEM学生的未来也不再有保障。

毫无疑问，这是大学长期缺乏资金的结果，欧盟有时可能会向个人项目投入资金，但普通的研究和教学经费的投入显然得不到保障

我在同一所大学担任学生导师，这很有趣，也是一次值得推荐的经历，但实际上它的报酬低于领取失业救济金；这违反劳动法。当大学甚至雇不起工人时，随之而来的是科学、技术和文化衰落

horridohobbies

Even if China is behind the USA in AI, it's not that far behind. And comparing China only to the USA is misleading. What about the rest of the world (Canada, UK, France, Germany, Japan, etc.)? I'm certain China surpasses those countries.

即使中国真的在人工智能方面落后于美国，也不会落后太多。把中国与美国比，是一种误导。世界其他地区（加拿大、英国、法国、德国、日本等）呢？我确信中国超越了那些国家。

JIANG

1. The West should not worry about the rise of Chinese science. They should ponder why China has made tremendous progress in the arena and find ways to catch up ....

2. China has firm determination to strive in all areas. For example, its space exploration has a team of 300,000 talents .

西方不应该担心中国科学的崛起。他们应该思考为什么中国在这一领域取得了巨大进步，并想办法迎头赶上。

中国在各领域都有奋斗的坚定决心。例如，它的太空探索团队拥有30万名人才。

elenaleclerc6410

China needs to invest more in Basic Sciences research and the funding has to come from both the government and private sectors. Further, in the fields of education especially in elementary and secondary schools, young students should have science-related education and hands-on experimentation classes. There shall be “Technological Innovation” competition nationwide annually so talents can be detected from all walks of life especially among rural population.

The speaker from Oslo still has an outdated perception of China like most Europeans or Americans do because they just repeat informations circulated in their own countries’ mainstream press. On the other hand, if China does not innovate, why would the West be so anxously obsessed with sanctioning and sabotaging China’s technological and economic advancements ?

Pascal from Belgium is probably one of the few Europeans who has a quite realistic view of China.

中国需要加大对基础科学研究的投资，资金可以来自政府和私营部门。此外，在教育领域，特别是在中小学，学生应该接受与科学相关的教育和实践实验课程。每年要在全国范围内举办“技术创新”竞赛，让各行各业的人才，特别是来自农村地区的好苗子都能被发现。

那位来自奥斯陆的发言人对中国的看法仍然过时，就像大多数欧洲人或美国人一样，他们只是重复自己国家主流媒体上宣传的信息。另一方面，如果中国没有创新，为什么西方会如此焦虑地痴迷于制裁和破坏中国的技术和经济进步？

来自比利时的帕斯卡尔可能是少数几个对中国持现实看法的欧洲人之一。

socialismdeclassified

great work China, Best country in the world

中国干得好，世界上最好的国家

FrancoisEustache-ed6gd

What the west worry is that China has adopted the policy of "The Progress of Science and Technologies for the Benefit of Mankind" and could seduce a lot of innovative minds in the west that are sick and tired of the policy of "The Progress of Science and Technologies for the Benefit of the Big Investors" that has dominated liberal capitalism economies for more than a century.

西方担心的是，中国采取了“科学技术进步造福人类”的政策，并可能吸引西方许多创新人才，这些人才已经厌倦了一个多世纪以来主导自由zb主义经济的“科学技术进展造福大投资者”政策。

luongtam9087

A thousand-mile journey starts with a first step.

The idea is cheap, to making an idea happen is the challenge. To make an idea happen, it needs money, support, and focus.

The completions will drive the creativity. And small business is creative engine

千里之行始于足下。

有想法是好事，不过实现一个想法会是一个挑战。要实现一个想法，需要资金、支持和投入

激发创造力。小企业是创意引擎

user-ye2lf4zf9o

Necessity is the mother of all invention. Remember?

需求是发明之母

parttimethinker7611

China was decades behind the U.S. that no one in the us even bothered to check on the Chinese’s scientific progress. No one should be surprised of the Chinese scientists’ progressing. That’s what education is for, to catch up with society and our peers. That’s the quality education American universities are good at. The Chinese students will use whatever at his or her disposal to learn as much as he could in the shortest possible time.

中国落后于美国几十年，美国甚至没有人在意中国的科学进步。任何人都不应该对中国科学家的进步感到惊讶。这就是教育的目的，赶上社会的时代步伐

这就是美国大学所擅长的优质教育。

中国学生会利用所掌握的一切，在尽可能短的时间内尽可能多地学习。

horridohobbies

The state of US education up to the college level is very poor. It has been declining for decades. US students have been failing according to many metrics.

Even the college level is not particularly impressive, except for the top universities like MIT, Harvard, Stanford, Caltech, Carnegie-Mellon, Princeton, etc. The USA has thousands of colleges and universities. Do they all produce top-notch talent? I don't think so.

美国的教育状况，从小学一直到大学，水平都很差。几十年来，这个水平一直在下降。从许多指标来看，美国学生不及格。

即使是大学水平也不是特别令人印象深刻，除了麻省理工学院、哈佛大学、斯坦福大学、加州理工大学、卡内基梅隆大学、普林斯顿大学等顶尖大学。美国有数千所学院和大学。他们都培养出顶尖人才吗？我不这么认为。

huhwhatjason

China has been and still is fighting to uplift its people so that they enjoy living standards comparable to developed countries, so it naturally gravitates towards projects which either have practical outcomes or are sure bets because its resources, including talents, are limited. Citizens of the collective West, being able to leech off of global wealth via colonialism and neo-colonialism, have plenty of leisure time to engage in all sorts of blue sky projects. Once again, it comes back down to wealth distribution, to material causes.

中国一直在努力提高人民的生活水平，让人民享受发达国家的生活水平。

由于包括人才在内的资源有限，中国自然倾向于有实际成果或有把握的项目。

西方能够通过殖民 主义和新殖民 主义榨取全球财富，有充足的闲暇时间参与各种蓝天项目。

leoxng7697

Chinese people are just as CREATIVE AS ANYONE AND MORE!!!

中国人和其他人一样富有创造力！！！

TituIshtiaque

In coming 10 years young populations growth will be the main issue for china

China should not underestimate this issue like Japan South Korea

未来10年，人口出生率将是中国面临的主要问题

中国不应该步日韩的后尘，低估这个问题