哪个国家的历史最不光彩

Which country has the most disgraceful history?

哪个国家的历史最不光彩？

u=2162406993,31118698&fm=26&gp=0.jpg

以下是Quora读者的评论：

Vladislav Antonov, HR Manager (2012-present)

UKRAINE

I love reading history books and each country has its own disgraceful history. It is hard to say which one is “THE MOST”, but Ukraine is one of “THE MOST DISGRACEFUL”. Let me go step by step to explain why. ( I am sorry for some historical inaccuracy, since I am trying to give you just some general idea, not write the history book).

乌克兰

我喜欢阅读历史书，其实每个国家都有过不光彩的历史，很难说清“最不光彩”的是哪个，但乌克兰却是其中之一。让我详细解释一下原因吧。(如果我有些史实写得不准确，很抱歉，我只想给大家一个大致的概念，并不是在撰写历史书)。

In 1237 Mongols started their invasion of Kievan Rus. Territories of Modern Ukraine were occupied by mongols, many cities were burned, sacked and destroyed. For hundreds of years, people had to pay taxes to Mongols. Any refusal would end up in enslavement or slaughter.

During 14th century, Ukrainian lands were invaded by Poland (and Lithuania). Later it transformed into Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Majority of Ukrainians were peasants, working on farms as serfs. In fact, the majority of population were illiterate serfs who worked for Polish masters.

Meanwhile, Ukraine was divided between Poland (its western part) and Russia (eastern part). Serf under the rule of Poland had to fight against the serf under the rule of Russian empire in frequent Russo-Polish wars - that’s more than 12 wars. Also, Ukraine had to fight with Ottoman Empire siding sometimes with Russia, sometimes with Poland and sometimes siding with Tatars or Ottomans to fight against Russians or Polish.

1237年蒙古人开始入侵基辅罗斯。现代乌克兰的领土被蒙古人占领，许多城市被烧毁、被洗劫甚至被摧毁。此后几百年时间，乌克兰人必须向蒙古人纳税。一切抵抗都被奴役及屠杀镇压。

14世纪，乌克兰领土被波兰(和立陶宛)入侵。后来，它并入波兰-立陶宛联邦。大多数乌克兰人是农民，在农场上做农奴。事实上，乌克兰大多数人口都是为波兰主子工作的文盲农奴。

与此同时，乌克兰被分割为波兰(乌克兰西部)和俄罗斯(乌克兰东部)两部分。在波兰统治下的农奴被迫与俄罗斯帝国统治下的农奴进行频繁的俄波战争——打了至少12场。此外，乌克兰有时被迫协助俄国或波兰与奥斯曼帝国作战，有时又协助鞑靼人或奥斯曼人一起对抗俄国人或波兰人。

Ziaddinè Chahoudi

I don’t know, even the word “disgraceful” is too much. But I would rate this nation as having the most distasteful history in the world:

我不确定，而且"不光彩"这个词也太沉重了。不过我觉得我下面要说的这个国家拥有世界上最令人厌恶的历史：

Romania

罗马尼亚

If Russia has been remembered for being the most barbaric colonizer, then Romania has a very distasteful history. If you read for a long time, you may see why:

如果说俄罗斯是人们记忆中最野蛮的殖民者，那么罗马尼亚有一段非常令人厌恶的历史。如果你读了很长时间，你就会明白为什么:

1. In the conflict over between Dacia (ancestor of modern Romania) and the Roman Empire, Decebalus having been defeated by Trajan. Trajan requested Decebalus to be in peace, the Romans wouldn’t touch on Dacia and Roman money would be used for Dacia to improve its economy. In the end, Decebalus used these money to make war against the Romans. This destroyed the independence of Dacia.

2. When the Ottomans started to conquer the Balkans, Romanian states refused to aid the Greek Byzantinians against the Turks. Only after Constantinople was taken, they started to react but too late. At least Vlad Dracula had helped to restore the honor, but it was too little to do. And then, the Romanians became a loyal ally of the Turks and it was them who supported the Ottomans to ransack Europe until Vienna 1683.

1.在达契亚(现代罗马尼亚的祖先)和罗马帝国之间的冲突中，德凯巴鲁斯被图拉真打败了。图拉真要求德凯巴鲁斯维持和平，罗马人不会插手达契亚，罗马的货币可在达契亚流通使用，提高达契亚的经济水平。最后，德凯巴鲁斯用这些钱向罗马人开战，摧毁了达契亚的独立。

2.当奥斯曼帝国开始征服巴尔干半岛时，罗马尼亚拒绝帮助希腊拜占庭人对抗土耳其人。等到君士坦丁堡被攻陷后，他们才开始反击，但为时已晚。尽管弗拉德·德古拉努力恢复了这一荣誉，但已无力回天。然后，罗马尼亚人成为土耳其人的忠实盟友，支持奥斯曼人洗劫欧洲，直到1683年战火烧至维也纳。

3. In modern period, Romania went later to free from the Turks after Russia and Bulgaria collaborated with each other in 1879. The first part was fine, Romania had little to care of, in the First Balkan War, Romania stayed neutral. Suddenly, in the second one, Romania backstabbed Bulgaria and invaded Bulgaria. The Bulgarians since then developed a feeling the Romanians were traitors and ungrateful, led to WWI which Bulgaria beat Romania hard, until 1918.

4. In WWII, Romania did have alliance treaty with Poland, but when Poland was invaded by the Russians and Germans, the Romanians sided with the Germans because of animosity with Hungary, Poland’s long time ally. Romania also began its persecution in a very Nazi way. Romania supported Germany to invade Soviet Union; but then deserted from Germany to support USSR at 1944. In the end, Romania only lost more land while acquiring only Transylvania which was cut to Hungary before.

3. 近代，罗马尼亚在1879年俄国和保加利亚携手合作后，才得以从土耳其人手中解放出来。初期还好，罗马尼亚没什么好担心的，在第一次巴尔干战争中，罗马尼亚保持中立。可在第二场战争中，罗马尼亚突然在背后捅了保加利亚一刀，入侵了保加利亚。从那以后，保加利亚人开始把罗马尼亚人视为叛徒、忘恩负义的小人，导致了第一次世界大战，保加利亚在1918年打败了罗马尼亚。

4. 二战期间，罗马尼亚与波兰签订了联盟条约，但当波兰被俄罗斯和德国入侵时，罗马尼亚因为与对波兰长期盟友匈牙利的仇视而站在了德国一边。罗马尼亚也以一种非常纳粹的方式开始了迫害手段。罗马尼亚支持德国入侵苏联；但在1944年又抛弃德国，转而支援苏联。最后，罗马尼亚只落得了失去更多土地的下场，只获得了原先被划归匈牙利的特兰西瓦尼亚。

5. And now, Romania calls for reunion with Moldova. Many years passed, and… internal corruption is the most discussed among them, instead of reuniting with Moldova.

6. There are also numerous accusations of Romania that Romania doesn’t side with Albania, their ancient relatives, but rather supports Serbia; or Hungary accusing Romania, etc. But I cannot list all.

5. 现在，罗马尼亚提出要与摩尔多瓦统一。许多年过去后，他们讨论最多的是内部腐败，而不是与摩尔多瓦统一。

6. 对罗马尼亚的指责也很多，有说罗马尼亚没有站在多年亲戚阿尔巴尼亚一边，而是支持塞尔维亚；也有说匈牙利现在指责罗马尼亚等。我在这里就不一一列举了。

So what make Romanian history distasteful?

Because Romania, unfortunately, has a long history of betraying allies, backstabbing, and, internal corruption.

I would not say it is disgraceful but, it is so ironic and terrible. Romania, for most history, it fails to fulfill promises and never been able to do without trying to stab others.

Now Romania is a NATO member, but there is a feeling among other NATO members, especially those like Poland and Hungary, that, Romania will not fulfill its commitment but rather seeking to benefits themselves than trying to do something. Not surprising that Russia doesn’t even bother to destabilize or control Romania, but because of Romania’s long record of betrayal. You may wonder why Russia tries hard to destabilize other countries in Eastern Europe but never touch on Romania? You bet.

那么是什么让罗马尼亚的历史如此令人厌恶呢？

因为，很遗憾，罗马尼亚有着背叛盟友、暗箭伤人和内部腐败的悠久历史。

我不想说这很可耻，但是，试试确实如此的讽刺和可怕。在历史上的大部分时间里，罗马尼亚都未能履行承诺，也从未能做到不暗箭伤人。

现在的罗马尼亚是北约成员国，但是其他北约成员国，尤其波兰和匈牙利等国，总认为罗马尼亚不会履行它的承诺，只在意自己的利益，其他事情一概不管。俄罗斯压根不屑击垮或控制罗马尼亚，这并不奇怪，原因正是罗马尼亚的背叛历史。你也许想问，为什么俄罗斯一直致力于破坏东欧其他国家的稳定，却从不插手罗马尼亚？你猜猜？

Francesco Sponza, Ph.D. Archaeology & Asia-Pacific, University of Cambridge

Many people don’t realize that Germany is not the powerful leader, warmonger country that dominated the history of the last century. Germany actually is a country that suffered a lot of losses and disgraceful events. First of all, the 30 years’ war that basically left the diverse states of what is now Germany in tatters. German people were spread across vast areas of Northern Europe, including the Baltic countries, Poland, the infamous Sudetes, etcetera. So, when the unification of Germany happened in 1871 and suddenly the country became a major player in the international chessboard, one of the nationalistic major focus was to create a pan-Germanic nation, including all the German people divided in many states. However, it failed. Two wars were basically initiated by Germany, and both ended up in disasters. German people suffered unimaginable tragedies on the trenches and behind during the WWI, then the fragile Weimar Republic was barely able to contain social unrest and inflation. We all know who got advantage of it and, after 10 years of nationalistic intoxcating propaganda, another war started and ruined the country even more. All the peripheries of the initial German unification of 1871 were lost and assigned to other countries, such as Poland and even Russia (Kant’s Konigsberg is an exclave of Russia now), while the country remained divided in two areas, the NATO-aligned BRD, and the Soviet-aligned DDR, until 1990. With Berlin further divided in 4 areas.

许多人都没有意识到，德国其实并不是主宰上个世纪历史的强大领袖、战争贩。实际上，德国是一个遭受过重大损失和耻辱事件的国家。首先，持续了30年的战争基本上把组成当今德国的各国打得支离破碎。德国人遍布北欧的广大地区，包括波罗的海国家，波兰，臭名昭著的苏台德山脉等地。所以，当德国在1871年统一的时候，这个国家突然成为了国际棋盘上的重要玩家，民族主义的主要焦点之一就是建立泛日耳曼民族，把分散各地的德国人集合起来。但这个目的失败了。两场战争基本上都是由德国发起的，但都以灾难告终。

第一次世界大战期间，德国人民在前方和后方遭受了难以想象的痛苦，脆弱的魏玛共和国对社会动荡和通货膨胀束手无策。在长达10年的民族主义煽动宣传之后，又一场战争爆发了，进一步摧毁了这个国家。1871年德国统一初期的所有周边国家都失守，划归其他国家，比如波兰，甚至俄罗斯(康德的哥尼斯堡现在是俄罗斯的飞地)，德国一直被分裂为两个地区，北约联盟的德意志联邦共和国和苏联联盟的德意志民*共和国，这个情况一直持续到1990年。而柏林后又被划分为4个地区。

I mean, when you think about Germany and you see the economic and political giant that is today, consider that this is a very recent outcome. For the past centuries this area of the world has been ravaged by wars, dismembered and scrambled by the central European powers, with few, short, blasts of energy, unfortunately boosted by a destructive ethnocentric ybris that led into further destructions.

Overall, it is incredible how Germany still manages nowadays to be such a top-player having undergone so many downfalls but, always, rising up again.

当你想到德国，你看到的是今天的德国是经济和政治上的巨人，但是你要知道这是最近才取得的成果。在过去的几个世纪里，地球上的这一地区饱受战争的蹂躏，被中欧列强反复瓜分争夺，不幸的是，德国人被毁灭性的种族优越感煽动，导致了更严重的破坏。

总体而言，令人难以置信的是，虽然如今的德国经历过如此多逆境，但总是能够再次崛起，仍然成长为世界强国。

Armando E. Pattroni, History fan, specialized in the post war period (1884-1929)

Europe in general. No doubt about it. When Gatling invented the machine gun in the 1860’s, the market for it quickly collapsed since he had sold the killing machine to the US and other minor countries (Peru in 1879 for example), so he was going bankrupt. Somebody gave him an idea: Go to Europe, they are specialists in killing each other all the time. This assertion proved true, since in WWI the Gatling machine was the most dreadful invention of its time.

In South America we have had wars, of course. The most terrible of which killed about 1M Paraguayans and 100K Brazilians in the 1860’s. The Pacific War faced Chile against Peru and Bolivia, and Peru and Chile had around 30k dead each and Bolivia like 100, or maybe 200 casualties (hahahahaaa), and Bolivia and Peru still feel a deep hatred towards Chile, the winner, they are mortal enemies, almost irreconcilable, despite the consequences for Chile were that they are still a third world country, noticeable only in Latin America.

通常来说是欧洲。这一点毫无疑问。加特林在19世纪60年代发明机关枪，他把这种杀人机器卖给了美国和其他小国家(例如1879年的秘鲁)，因为这种机关枪的市场迅速消失，所以他濒临破产。有人给他除了一个主意：去欧洲试试吧，他们一直都在互相残杀。事实证明这个说法是正确的，因为在第一次世界大战中，加特林机枪是当时最可怕的发明。

当然，在南美洲，我们也经历过战争。最可怕的一次发生在19世纪60年代，造成大约100万巴拉圭人和10万巴西人阵亡。太平洋战争中智利与秘鲁和玻利维亚对战，秘鲁和智利各有约3万人阵亡，玻利维亚的伤亡人数大约是100至200人，玻利维亚和秘鲁至今仍深深地憎恨智利这个获胜者，他们是不共戴天的仇敌，势不两立，尽管智利至今仍是第三世界国家，仅在拉丁美洲有点存在感。

译文来源：三泰虎 https://www.santaihu.com/p/51899.html 译者：Joyceliu

We are talking about around 600 years of history in South America.

We can not even imagine to have two wars with tenths of millions of human beings dead, women, children, the elderly, economic destruction, etc. We can’t even dream about what the Russian people suffered with Operation Barbarossa, or what the 2M German women felt when raped by the soviet red soldiers and by the “American Heroes”. We can’t conceive the cold, cruelty, typhus, family separation, dead, in the concentration camps. We can not think about the German prisoners in the soviet camps, separated from their families after the war for years, only a few of them surviving and returning home. We can not believe human beings are capable to do that.

Even in the nineties, the Balkans wars were incredible, and between people that for us are almost identical (that sounds racist, I know). Why do you hate each other so deeply?

No doubt, Europe.

There would be a lot more white people in the world if Europe were not the territory with the most disgraceful history.

And yes, we in South America are very different than you people.

我们现在讨论的是南美洲近600年的历史。

我们无法想象两场世界大战造成的数以千万计的伤亡人数、妇孺老幼、经济破坏。我们无法想象俄罗斯人民在巴巴罗萨行动中遭受了什么，也无法想象200万德国妇女在被苏联红军和“美国英雄”强奸时的感受。我们无法想象里的寒冷，残忍，伤寒，骨肉分离，死亡阴影。我们无法想象在苏联中被关押的德国囚犯，他们在战后与家人分开多年，只有少数人得以幸存并返回家园。我们不敢相信，人类会如此残忍。

即便在90年代，巴尔干半岛的战争也令人难以置信，更何况战争双方对我们而言并无两样(我知道这听起来有点种族主义)。你们为何如此憎恨彼此？

毫无疑问，欧洲的历史是最不光彩的。

如果欧洲的历史没有如此不堪，世界上的白人会比现在多得多。

嗯，是的，我们南美洲人跟你们很不一样。