越南的军事武器已经过时了，为什么世界高估越军能力

The Vietnamese military weapons are so outdated. Why does the world overrate the Vietnamese military's capacity?

越南的军事武器已经过时了。为什么世界高估了越南军队的能力？

以下是Quora读者的评论：

Assistant

The perception of the Vietnamese military's capacity may be influenced by several factors, despite the reality of its outdated equipment. Here are some key points to consider:

Historical Legacy: Vietnam has a significant military history, particularly its successful resistance against colonial powers and the United States during the Vietnam War. This legacy contributes to a perception of military capability that may not fully reflect current realities.
Guerrilla Warfare Tactics: Vietnam is known for its effective guerrilla warfare tactics, which have been studied and admired by militaries worldwide. The ability to conduct asymmetrical warfare can lead to an overrated assessment of overall military capability.
Regional Context: In Southeast Asia, Vietnam is one of the more capable military forces. Its military is seen as a counterbalance to China's growing influence in the region, leading to a perception of strength relative to other regional powers.
Modernization Efforts: While much of Vietnam's equipment may be outdated, the country has been making efforts to modernize its military. This includes purchasing newer technology from countries like Russia and enhancing its naval capabilities, which can create a perception of an evolving military force.
Strategic Partnerships: Vietnam has been strengthening its defense ties with various countries, including the United States, India, and Japan. These partnerships can enhance its military capabilities and influence perceptions of its strength.
Public Relations and Propaganda: Like many nations, Vietnam engages in public relations efforts to promote its military capabilities. This can create a perception that may not align with the actual state of its military equipment and technology.

In summary, while the Vietnamese military may face challenges with outdated equipment, historical context, tactical proficiency, and modernization efforts contribute to a perception of its capacity that may be considered overrated by some observers.

尽管越南军队装备陈旧，但对其军事能力的认知可能受多种因素影响。以下是一些关键要点：

1. **历史遗产**：越南拥有辉煌的军事历史，特别是在抗击殖民列强以及越南战争中成功抵御美国。这段历史使人们对其军事能力形成一种认知，而这种认知可能并不完全反映当前的实际情况。

2. **游击战术**：越南以其行之有效的游击战术闻名，这些战术受到全球各国军队的研究和赞赏。开展非对称战争的能力，可能导致对其整体军事能力的高估。

3. **地区背景**：在东南亚，越南是军事能力较强的国家之一。其军队被视为对中国在该地区日益增长影响力的一种制衡，相较于其他地区强国，这使得人们对其军事力量有较高的认知。

4. **现代化努力**：尽管越南的许多装备可能过时，但该国一直在努力实现军队现代化。这包括从俄罗斯等国购买更新的技术，并增强其海军能力，这可能会让人觉得越南军队在不断发展。

5. **战略伙伴关系**：越南一直在加强与美国、印度和日本等多个国家的防务关系。这些伙伴关系能够提升其军事能力，并影响人们对其军事力量的认知。

6. **公关与宣传**：和许多国家一样，越南也通过公关活动来宣扬其军事能力。这可能会营造出一种与该国军事装备和技术实际状况不符的认知。

总之，尽管越南军队可能面临装备陈旧的挑战，但历史背景、战术素养和现代化努力等因素，导致一些观察家认为外界对其军事能力的认知可能存在高估的情况。

Nguyễn Thắng

It is true that Vietnam's weapons are a bit outdated!

But bullets fired from ak47 guns can still kill people like modern guns, right?

Anti-tank guns can still destroy tanks, right?

and the problem is!:

The total military personnel is 5.48 million, accounting for 5.6% of the total population. Of the overall figure, the reserve personnel hit 5 million, ranking 1st among 138 country. The fit-for-service is 41.8 million (13rd) while reaching military age annual is 1.65 million (15th).

Vietnam, the country of 97 million people, after the end of the Vietnam War in 1975 has compulsory conscription for men of 18 to 27 for the enlistment of two years while the status for women is voluntary.

Vietnam also ranks high in other categories including natural resources, including oil production; logistics, including labor force, ports and terminals, roadway and railway coverage, and serviceable airports; and geography, including usable waterways, shared borders, and coastline coverage.

The report also reveals that Vietnam's defense budget is around US$5.5 billion, rising from US$3.3 billion in the previous version.

they spend 5 billion dollars just to feed 5 million soldiers in any given period! and that's equal to the number sodier of all the NATO nations in continental Europe! How much do you think nato's defense budget is?

The technological gap can be shortened in just 1 generation, but the social construction gap to raise an army like the Vietnamese takes about 100 years of continuous war!

and basically Vietnam has been peaceful for 31 years! And it is one of the most militaristic countries in the world!
thankfully the huge army was led by a rather gentle and agreeable co unist party!

越南武器确实有些过时！

但AK-47发射的子弹和现代枪支一样能致人死亡，不是吗？

反坦克炮依然可以摧毁坦克，对吧？

关键在于：

越南军事人员总数达548万，占总人口的5.6% 。其中预备役人员达500万，在138个国家中排名第一。适龄服役人数为4180万（排名第13位），每年达到服役年龄的人数为165万（排名第15位）。

越南人口9700万，自1975年越南战争结束后，对18至27岁的男性实行两年义务兵役制，女性则为志愿兵役。

越南在其他方面排名也很高，比如自然资源方面，包括石油产量；后勤方面，涵盖劳动力、港口及码头、公路和铁路覆盖范围、可用机场数量；还有地理方面，包括可用水道、接壤边境以及海岸线长度等。

报告还显示，越南国防预算约为55亿美元，较之前的33亿美元有所增加。

他们在任何时期仅养活500万士兵就要花费50亿美元！这相当于北约欧洲大陆所有国家的士兵数量！你觉得北约的国防预算是多少呢？

技术差距一代人就能缩短，但要建立像越南这样庞大军队的社会架构，得持续100年的战争！

而越南基本上已和平31年了！它是世界上最具军国主义色彩的国家之一！

好在这支庞大的军队是由相当温和且易相处的越南领导！

Your mom Loves me Though

I mean to this day, they’ve never lost the war even if you go back to the Chinese dynasty era, they still have yet to lose a war. They even held off Genghis Khan’s mongol Empire. Fought off the French and Americans. Also liberated Cambodia from Khmer regime . And I don’t know if you forgot this, but they also beat China in just a month slightly afterwards so I’d say they’re not to be underestimated. Pretty sure that Americans thought they were a bunch of primitive jungle dwellers back in the 60s-70’s and we see how well that turned out.

直至今日，即便追溯到中国封建王朝时期，他们也从未输掉过一场战争。他们甚至抵挡住了成吉思汗的蒙古帝国。击退了法国人和美国人。还将柬埔寨从高棉政权手中解放出来。

我不知道你是否忘了这点，但之后不久，他们在短短一个月内就打败了中国，所以我说他们不容小觑。可以肯定的是，在20世纪60-70年代，美国人还以为他们只是一群原始的丛林居民，而我们都看到了最后的结果。

David Diaz

Because their weapons systems were not 'outdated' enough to not be highly combat effective’. No one overrates anything, your just not giving the Viets the proper credit they deserve for defeating the most powerful richest country in the worlds military. And that was by no accident. Just like the Chinese, or even the Russians for that matter after Napoleon and then after surviving the Nazi invasion, as the French had to learn the hard way when they naively campaigned to re endlave then, the Viets were simply not the same nation militarily or even as a people, after surviving the most brutal savage Japanese invasion and occupation. And furthermore I would go so far as to even go so far as to wholeheartedly disagree with your false narrative that their weapons were 'obsolete'' which is utter nonsense. Do you know why the Russians had the best weapons? Because they had absolutely no qualms about COPYING the best weapons systems for the job, if you really think that a simple tanker engineered the most revolutionary weapons system the world has ever seen since the invention of gunpowder then you truly know not of what you speak. Why do you think Hitler strictly forbade the engineers to put into service the Sturmgevehr, BECAUSE HE WAS AN ACTUAL COMBAT DECORATED 11 BRAVO INFANTRYMAN And he knew how valuable a weapons system could be which the very concept of an automatic intermediate cartridge magazine fed carbine/rifle which was designed so as a totally untrained civilian could pick up and be combat effective to medium range.

因为他们的武器系统并非 “过时” 到毫无强大的战斗力。没有人高估什么，只是你没有给予越南人应有的赞誉，他们打败了世界上最强大、最富有的国家的军队，而这绝非偶然。

就像中国人，甚至俄罗斯人，在抵御拿破仑入侵以及在挺过纳粹入侵之后（展现出强大实力）一样，法国人曾天真地试图重新殖民越南，结果吃了苦头，经历过最残酷野蛮的日本入侵和占领后，越南无论是在军事上还是作为一个民族，都已今非昔比。

而且，我完全不同意你所谓他们武器 “过时” 的错误说法，这简直荒谬至极。你知道为什么俄罗斯人拥有最好的武器吗？因为他们毫无顾虑地仿制最适合作战的武器系统。如果你真以为某个普通坦克兵就能设计出自火药发明以来世界上最具革命性的武器系统，那你真是不知所云。

你觉得为什么希特勒严禁工程师将Sturmgewehr投入使用？因为他是一名真正获得过战斗勋章的步兵，他深知一种武器系统能有多重要，这种自动装填、使用中间型威力枪弹弹匣供弹的卡宾枪 / 步枪，设计目的就是让完全未经训练的平民拿起就能在中距离具备战斗力。

Thaihoc Tran

“ An armour can’t make a warrior “ I am sure about that! Modern weapons can help to boost military’s strength of our country but our experiences , our skills, our responsibilities to our future and be willing to sacrifice for our country... that makes the great military

“一身铠甲成就不了一名勇士”，对此我深信不疑！现代化武器有助于提升我们国家军队的实力，但我们的经验、技能、对未来的责任感以及愿意为国家做出牺牲的精神…… 这些才造就了一支伟大的军队。

Shubin Marx

Only Vietnamese over-rate themselves and Vietnamese military. This question was raised by Vietnamese propaganda department and should be answered by themselves as well.

只有越南人高估他们自己以及越南军队。这个问题是越南宣传部门提出来的，也应该由他们自己来回答。

Jim Phipps

Comparable nations in military capability are:

Poland
Thailand
Ukraine

I fought the Vietnamese and understand the military’s outlook on war. The forces appear to have minimal offensive capability other than their periodic forays into Laos. On a gross level it is similar to most SE Asian nations. Military priorities are:

Internal Security
Limited defensive operations

From a threat analysis, their primary enemy is China. The Vietnamese military like Ukraine’s could be overwhelmed in a force on force campaign.

Logistically, they lack Ukraine’s manufacturing base. Also due to geography, they are at the tail end of long supply line that in many cases can be interdicted easily. Unlike Ukraine, Vietnamese refugees possibly would not be welcomed in Cambodia or Laos.

The long term fighting would probably be decades of guerrilla war for an adversary like China. Vietnam understands local guerrilla warfare. In that environment, high tech weapons are of minimal advantage and are a minor force multiplier.

My money on a long term war is on Vietnam.

在军事能力方面具有可比性的国家有：

- 波兰
- 泰国
- 乌克兰

我与越南人交过战，了解他们军队对战争的看法。除了偶尔对老挝发动袭击外，越南军队似乎进攻能力有限。总体而言，其军事水平与大多数东南亚国家类似。越南军事工作重点在于：

- 国内安全

- 有限的防御行动

从威胁分析来看，他们的主要敌人是中国。越南军队和乌克兰军队一样，在正面交锋的战役中可能会被击败。

在后勤方面，他们缺乏乌克兰那样的制造业基础。而且由于地理位置原因，越南处于漫长补给线的末端，在很多情况下补给线很容易被切断。与乌克兰不同，越南难民可能不会受到柬埔寨或老挝的欢迎。

对于像中国这样的对手来说，长期作战可能意味着数十年的游击战。越南熟悉本土的游击战术。在这种作战环境下，高科技武器优势不大，对增强战斗力的作用有限。

如果是一场长期战争，我看好越南。

Dan Kim

Because of sheer quantity of military men and material. Considering that Vietnam is ranked 28 in world military ranking, behind Greece and Sweden - I don’t think it’s overrated. Given the size of Vietnam’s standing army and population size, I’d certainly expect Vietnam to be more resilient in defense than many nations that are ranked higher.

鉴于其庞大的军事人员和物资数量。考虑到越南在世界军事排名中位列第28，仅次于希腊和瑞典，我认为这并非高估。鉴于越南现役军队的规模以及其人口数量，我肯定认为越南在防御方面会比许多排名更靠前的国家更具韧性。

Nguyễn Thắng

It is true that Vietnam's weapons are a bit outdated!

But bullets fired from ak47 guns can still kill people like modern guns, right?

Anti-tank guns can still destroy tanks, right?

and the problem is!:

The report also reveals that Vietnam's defense budget is around US$5.5 billion, rising from US$3.3 billion in the previous version.

The technological gap can be shortened in just 1 generation, but the social construction gap to raise an army like the Vietnamese takes about 100 years of continuous war!

and basically Vietnam has been peaceful for 31 years! And it is one of the most militaristic countries in the world!

越南的武器确实有些过时！

但AK - 47射出的子弹和现代枪支一样能致人死亡，对吧？

反坦克炮依旧能够摧毁坦克，不是吗？

问题在于：

越南军事人员总数达548万，占总人口的5.6%。其中预备役人员高达500万，在138个国家中位居榜首。适龄服役人数为4180万（排名第13位），每年达到服役年龄的人数为165万（排名第15位）。

（图1）

越南拥有9700万人口，自1975年越南战争结束后，对18至27岁的男性实行两年义务兵役制，女性则是志愿服役。

越南在其他方面排名也很靠前，比如在自然资源方面，包括石油产量；在后勤方面，涵盖劳动力、港口与码头、公路和铁路覆盖范围以及可用机场；在地理方面，包括可利用的水道、接壤边境以及海岸线长度等。

报告还显示，越南的国防预算约为55亿美元，较之前的33亿美元有所增加。

他们在任何时期仅养活500万士兵就得花费50亿美元！这相当于北约欧洲大陆所有国家的士兵数量！你觉得北约的国防预算是多少呢？

技术差距一代人就能缩短，但要构建起像越南这样规模军队的社会架构，大概需要持续100年的战争！

而且基本上越南已经和平31年了！它还是世界上最具军国主义色彩的国家之一！

Duke Wo Ngo

The Vietnam is a medium military power in SouthEast Asia but still a force to be reckoned with (all 3 branches of the armed forces). They are armed with Sukhoi Su-30 fighter-bombers, submarines, missile frigates and corvettes, coastal missile batteries and surveillance radars…They managed to manufacture their small arms, ammo and perhaps missiles…Although their readiness is unknown but potential enemies can be surprised by their under-estimates as past enemies learned to their detriment…They may fight a stronger foe to a draw on the defensive by their interdiction doctrine. They may be forced to withdraw but without first inflicting heavy casualties…The land-forces seem to be the strongest but efforts are paid to modernize both the airforce and navy now.

越南是东南亚的一个中等军事强国，其武装部队的三个军种都不容小觑。他们装备有苏霍伊苏 - 30战斗轰炸机、潜艇、导弹护卫舰和轻型护卫舰、海岸导弹炮台以及监视雷达等…… 越南能够制造小型武器、弹药，或许还能制造导弹…… 尽管其战备状态不明，但潜在敌人若低估他们，很可能会像过去的敌人那样自食恶果，感到惊讶。凭借其阻截战术，他们或许能在防御战中与更强大的对手打成平手。即便可能被迫撤退，也会先给敌方造成重大伤亡…… 越南陆军似乎最为强大，不过目前越南也在着力推进空军和海军的现代化建设。

Mark Wedrall

I believe that it’s their attitude to foreign invaders that makes them ‘noticeable.’ They’ve been fighting the Chinese, Japanese, French, Americans and now the Chinese ‘again’ with no signs of giving up ‘to anybody.’ In my personal experience, they were a very polite society with their flip side being unflinching killers of anyone foreign. It’s not always the weapons that empower military strength. One should never discount the warrior ethos that inspires and fuels the ferocity of an opponent.

我认为，正是他们对待外国侵略者的态度，使他们 “引人注目”。他们先后与中国人、日本人、法国人、美国人作战，如今似乎又 “再次” 与中国人产生冲突，却毫无向 “任何人” 屈服的迹象。以我个人经历而言，他们的社会礼仪周全，但另一方面，对待任何外国人，他们都是毫不手软的杀手。赋予军队力量的并非总是武器。人们绝不能轻视那种激发并支撑对手战斗狂热的战斗精神。

Jerry Sollinger

Military capability is more than just weapons. The Vietnamese army is well trained and very disciplined. Their weapons are adequate for their needs. They are not an expeditionary army, so they do not have to worry about how to deploy their forces outside of the country. They know the terrain they have to defend, which is an advantage in itself. So, while their weapons may not be the latest and greatest, they are what they can afford, they work, and they know how to use them to good effect.

军事能力绝不仅仅取决于武器装备。越南军队训练有素且纪律严明。他们的武器足以满足自身需求。越南军队并非一支远征军，所以无需担忧如何在境外部署兵力。他们熟悉需要保卫的地形，这本身就是一项优势。因此，尽管他们的武器可能并非最先进、最精良的，但这些武器是他们负担得起且切实可用的，并且他们深知如何充分发挥这些武器的效能。

Sterling Peters

Consider: they beat the Chinese; the French and the US, all of whom had better weapons, better technology, better everything except iron will to determine their own destiny. It would be a serious mistake to underestimate them, their capability, or their determination.

想想看：他们击败过中国、法国和美国，这些对手都拥有更精良的武器、更先进的技术，在各方面都更具优势，唯独在决定自身命运的钢铁意志上，不及越南。低估他们、他们的能力或是他们的决心，都将是严重的错误。

Jeffrey Young

Well, for the longest time the North Vietnamese Army (NVA), possessed state-of-the-art military equipment, thanks to the Soviet Union and China, who both saw North Vietnam as a brother nation and a proxy war against the hated United States.

The NVA infantry came equipped with the ubiquitous AKM, which tactically was equal to the M16A1. The Soviets provided T-54 and T-72 tanks. The T-72 was the Soviet Union’s state-of-the-art combat tank in the early 70s. The Red Chinese PLA provided T-64 tanks to the NVA as well as Chinese-produced AKMs, billions of AKM rounds, and tons of military logistical and support equipment.

The best yet was the Soviet, SA-2, long-range, radar-guided SAM, referred to by the Americans as the “flying telephone pole”. The SA-2 employed the state-of-the-art electronics and transistor technology of its time, plus modern radar and computer-guidance and control systems.

The NVA was not the “little, yellow men in black pajamas” that the bigoted Europeans like to boast about beating the despised Yankee Americans, many of whom are still our present NATO allies, supposedly.

All that ended with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 and the violent end of the “brotherly Asian alliance” between historical enemies, China and Vietnam in 1979. In fact Red Chinese aid to Vietnam ended after the Americans withdrew.

North Vietnam reneged on the peace armistice treaty, to no one’s surprise, and forcibly unified Vietnam in April 1975. Since then Vietnam is stuck with pretty much the same equipment it possessed since 1975. Vietnam is still a poor nation and has little wherewithal to modernize and upgrade its military.

长期以来，北越军队（NVA）拥有先进的军事装备，这得益于苏联和中国，二者当时都将北越视为兄弟国家，并把越战当作对抗美国的代理人战争。

北越步兵普遍装备AKM突击步枪，从战术角度讲，它与M16A1性能相当。苏联向北越提供了T - 54和T - 72坦克。20世纪70年代初，T - 72是苏联最先进的主战坦克。中国人民解放军向北越提供了T-64坦克，以及中国生产的AKM步枪、数十亿发AKM子弹，还有大量的军事后勤与支援装备。

最厉害的当属苏联的SA - 2远程雷达制导地对空导弹，美国人称之为 “飞行电线杆” 。SA - 2采用了当时最先进的电子和晶体管技术，以及现代化的雷达、计算机制导与控制系统。

北越军队可不是那些偏执的欧洲人所吹嘘的 “穿着黑色睡衣的小个子黄种人”，他们竟然还宣称打败了遭人唾弃的美国佬，而这些欧洲人如今很多还是我们北约的盟友呢。

1991年苏联解体，1979年中越这对历史宿敌之间 “亲如兄弟的亚洲联盟” 也终结，这一切都画上了句号。事实上，美国撤军后，中国对越南的援助就停止了。

不出所料，北越违背了和平停战协定，并于1975年4月强行统一了越南。从那以后，越南基本上还在使用1975年就拥有的那些装备。越南仍是个贫穷国家，没什么财力来实现军事现代化和装备升级。

Kenneth Boyd

There are three things you have to look at when evaluated the use of military equipment:
Is it the newest, most capable that is out there?
Is it maintained well?
Are the soldiers trained well on it?

I had a Major who worked at the National Ground Intelligence Agency under the DIA. He was part of the contingent that examined former Eastern Bloc countries after the fall of the Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union.
He noticed that the East Germans had the oldest equipment and the Soviets had the latest equipment. However, the East Germans had maintained their equipment far better than the Russians, and therefore clearly had the better, more capable Army.

In other words, it doesn’t help if you have the latest and greatest if it’s broken or out of fuel. It doesn’t help you when you haven’t trained on it, either.

I don’t know how any military rates the Vietnamese military, but the Vietnamese are a very hardy people and can endure quite a long conflict. They outlasted America, the premiere Military throughout the world.

评估军事装备的使用情况时，有三个方面需要考量：

它是否是市面上最新、性能最强的装备？

装备维护情况是否良好？

士兵是否接受过相关装备的良好训练？

我认识一位在国防情报局（DIA）下属的国家地面情报机构工作的少校。华沙条约组织和苏联解体后，他参与了对前东欧集团国家的考察工作。

他注意到，东德的装备最为老旧，而苏联的装备最为先进。然而，东德对装备的维护程度远超俄罗斯，因此，东德军队显然更优秀、战斗力更强。

换句话说，即便你拥有最先进的装备，但如果装备损坏或燃料耗尽，那也无济于事。如果你没有接受过相关装备的训练，同样也发挥不出装备的作用。

我不知道各国军方如何评价越南军队，但越南人民坚韧不拔，能够承受长期的冲突。他们在持久战中战胜了全球首屈一指的军事强国——美国。